Just realized we wasted money fighting cold war

andrasnm · Feb 28, 2006

What we should have done is sell our port operations to the East Germans, maybe have thrown in the airports and Mississippi barge companies to Poland --

Then we would have been really secure, knowing the Soviets would never attack us and risk disrupting their business ventures.

Maybe we can cut something of the same deal with Iran and China now that the UAE has shown the way.

Jayford · Feb 28, 2006

Outspending the Soviets was sheer brilliance.

But back to the subject. The entire west coast port industry has been in foreign hands for years. The only reason why its an issue now on the east coast is because of Arab paranoia. BTW, the change in ownership will not change the security in any way. Its just political bullshit that the press is running with.

The UAE has every right to run these ports. They are a major ally, but that isn't even the issue. When you start choosing which country can or cannot play, then free trade/biz goes out the window. Its a very slippery slope we do not want to get on.

I am not a Bush fan, but I think he is spot on on this issue.

5yrtrader · Feb 28, 2006

I am not sure on this, but I am assuming that we have ports in the UAE, I know we have military bases, which is worse. How hypocritical would it be for us to block them? They are one of our biggest Allies in the Middle East, it would be very dumb for our government not to let this deal through as we need a huge PR boost in the Middle East, this is the best way to stop terrorism IMO.

We export our ideas/ideals (free market capitalism) all over the world and in some cases force it upon people. (Iraq for one) How can we tell an UAE company that they can't buy a port? This is what a free-market is.

I can't beleive how ignorant some people, particularly the average american joe, are on world events. READ THE PAPER once in a while and not the local gazette. It is your responisibilty in a democratic society to educate your self on issues and make up your own mind, realize that everything you read/see is biased in one way or another. It is scary how many ignorant people live in the US, our decisions effect every other person in the world, so act like you deserve this right.

5yrtrader · Feb 28, 2006

Quote from andrasnm:

Torture is legal, science is heresy, magic is studied in secrecy, leaders rely on religious fanaticism, poverty sweeps the land as murderous despots hoard wealth behind walls, mysterious plagues terrify the people, inquisitors hunt dissidents, and crusades against Arabs are used to distract the masses from revolt.

That describes Europe's grim Middle Ages, but medieval scholar Eric Jager says it also describes the United States in 2006, in an era many Americans consider to be a glorious information age of technological wonders.

From a thread you started. Looks like you support the leaders that "rely on religious fanaticism;" you have, in fact, bought into this idea, and you may not realize it. Just because someone is Muslim doesn't make them a terrorist.

Covertibility · Feb 28, 2006

Letter to secretary snow

Dubai, which owns and controls the acquiring company in this case, has been named as a key transfer point for illegal shipments of nuclear components to Iran, North Korea and Lybia..."

"According to the Congressional Research Service, many U.S. officials believed that al Qaeda activists have spent time in the UAE. In fact, two of the 9/11 hijackers were UAE nationals (Fayez Banihammad and Marwan al-Shehhi), and the Federal Bureau of Investigation claimed the money used for the attacks was transferred to the 9/11 hijackers primarily through the UAE's banking system. Furthermore, after the 9/11 attacks, your department complained of a lack of cooperation by the UAE and other Arab countries as the U.S. was trying to track down Osama bin Laden's bank accounts."

----

To think that some thought China buying Unocal would hurt national security.....

If the port deal does go through, are we going to have to fly the bin Laden's out again?

dis · Feb 28, 2006

A Dubai-owned company, unburdened by political correctness, poses less of a threat to the national security than a British or U.S. one. The Dubai government can ill afford to let a U.S. port under its management to be used as a staging ground for a terrorist attack.

andrasnm · Mar 1, 2006

who said terrorist? It is a war of cultures and religion. A global thing now. We have no allies there only 'suppliers' as oil junkies. I am not supporting it but it is the way it is. Imagine this under the first crusades...they would have burned bush at the stake and looky look he is hated now more than ever at 34%....

Quote from 5yrtrader:

From a thread you started. Looks like you support the leaders that "rely on religious fanaticism;" you have, in fact, bought into this idea, and you may not realize it. Just because someone is Muslim doesn't make them a terrorist.

5yrtrader · Mar 1, 2006

Quote from andrasnm:

who said terrorist? It is a war of cultures and religion. A global thing now. We have no allies there only 'suppliers' as oil junkies. I am not supporting it but it is the way it is. Imagine this under the first crusades...they would have burned bush at the stake and looky look he is hated now more than ever at 34%....

Quote from 5yrtrader:
I can't beleive how ignorant some people, particularly the average american joe, are on world events. READ THE PAPER once in a while and not the local gazette. It is your responisibilty in a democratic society to educate your self on issues and make up your own mind, realize that everything you read/see is biased in one way or another. It is scary how many ignorant people live in the US, our decisions effect every other person in the world, so act like you deserve this right.

Like I said most americans are ignorant and this causes them to make poor decisions. BUsh suddenly has a bad approval rating because the war in Iraq is taking too long and he supports free markets? Who could have imagined this scenario?

One of Bush's main campain points is that he is a free marketer, of course he is going to supprot this deal. He also knows that throwing out the UAE company would be political suicide in the Middle East and for his pro-market stance, and he needs all the political power he can get to turn that thing in Iraq around.

Anyone that took the time to learn about Iraq and the soceity there knew this war would not go well. HIs father, Colin Powell, and basically the rest of the world, everyone but the american people. This could be blamed on the current administration as they really wanted to go to war so made it seem quick and easy, but because we live in a democracy it is our fault (Average American) for not educating ourselves on this matter.

Did we really think we can remove a government and replace it with an american style government in the one place in the world we are hated more than anyone (inculding Saddam)? We could just go in there and build a utopian society where oil is cheap and everyone loves us? A democracy will spring up and unite groups of people that have hated each other over centuries?

Pointing a gun at someone and asking them to vote doesn't make a democracy, a democracy comes from the will of a general populous thats has a sense of patriotism and wants to form a united whole.

2manywhiners · Mar 2, 2006

This is the forum for Economics, right?

I will not condemn either side of this argument, I will only ask for you to step back and think about these questions as they relate to business:
____________________________________________________________________________________________

Will the UAE taking control of these ports affect the ports themselves in a manner that is not directly correlated with foreign policies or politics in general?

Were there any previous national security issues (pertaining to management) with these ports during their time spent under other foreign entities control?

Did you know in December 2005 that ANY of our ports were under ANY foreign entities control?

Did you care then?

Do you tend to accept what American media sources tell you as being a completely accurate, non-biased representation of fact? [FredBloggs here yet?]

Do you think American media sources tend to jazz things up in order to sell you fear, which in turn sells their vacant advertising spaces?

andrasnm · Mar 2, 2006

I don't much like anything done by foreigners in the USA.
I think we would be better served to educate our own people and try to handle things ourselves.
And yes If I knew that these ports were under foreign control I would have disliked that too. What the fuck is wrong with this nation? Can't we wipe our asses without foreign help?
Now if I found out that somehow "free market" allowed a company controlled by Osama to do this - guess what then.......

Quote from 2manywhiners:

This is the forum for Economics, right?

I will not condemn either side of this argument, I will only ask for you to step back and think about these questions as they relate to business:
____________________________________________________________________________________________

Will the UAE taking control of these ports affect the ports themselves in a manner that is not directly correlated with foreign policies or politics in general?

Were there any previous national security issues (pertaining to management) with these ports during their time spent under other foreign entities control?

Did you know in December 2005 that ANY of our ports were under ANY foreign entities control?

Did you care then?

Do you tend to accept what American media sources tell you as being a completely accurate, non-biased representation of fact? [FredBloggs here yet?]

Do you think American media sources tend to jazz things up in order to sell you fear, which in turn sells their vacant advertising spaces?