judge not moving 10 commandments statue from u.s.a. gov. property

You are no different than me.

If 1000 followers of GUBADO, a strange and little known
jungle god of southeast asia, claimed they saw their god
raise a mountain and move it the other side of their land,
would you believe them???

It MAY have happened... but the fact remains, you
have no rational reason to believe this story. What you know
of the universe/physics, etc, would outweigh their
1000 people grandiose claim without further/stronger evidence.

peace

axeman



Quote from TM_Direct:

Funny how we demand this proof or our creator...but assuming it did happen and only 1000 people saw it.....you would only believe if you saw, not take other's account... [/B]
More...
 
Quote from axeman:

You are no different than me.

If 1000 followers of GUBADO, a strange and little known
jungle god of southeast asia, claimed they saw their god
raise a mountain and move it the other side of their land,
would you believe them???

It MAY have happened... but the fact remains, you
have no rational reason to believe this story. What you know
of the universe/physics, etc, would outweigh their
1000 people grandiose claim without further/stronger evidence.

peace

axeman
More...

i never heard that but would be interested to learn more...if thousands saw it., who am i to say " it didn't;t happen because i didn't see it??.......AXE, DOUBTER,STU,,,have a good night and let's keep this going until somebody converts!! :D :D
 
The easiest thing to do, would be to simply ask god to present
himself in front of all man kind, all at once, and let them
know that he did in fact give ME these commands to spread
among man, and that all man should follow them.
That I was official his spokeman from now on.
This would be a rather TRIVIAL thing for an all powerful entity to do.

In other words, I have not heard of any accounts of
these men which contradict what is known as humanly possible
or directly against what is known as possible in general.
axeman
___________________________________________

In other words if he doesn't do something supernatural you won't believe him and if he does you certainly won't. Do you think the problem is his or yours?
 
"In other words if he doesn't do something supernatural you won't believe him and if he does you certainly won't. Do you think the problem is his or yours? "

I think you meant:
"In other words if he doesn't do something supernatural you WILL believe him and if he does you certainly won't. Do you think the problem is his or yours? "


Your leaving out the key ingredient, EVIDENCE,
and two of the possibilities.


Lets break this down into the 4 complete cases:

If he does something supernatural WITHOUT incredibly
strong evidence ( the same required for cold fusion ),
then I WONT believe him.

If he does NOTHING supernatural, and little evidence is given,
then I will probably believe him.

If he does something supernatural, but with incredibly
strong evidence, then I WILL believe him.

If he does NOTHING supernatural, and extreme evidence is
given anyway, than of course, I will believe him.




Therefore.... if he does something supernatural, and FAILS
to prove incredibly good evidence, and STILL expects me
to believe him...then HE clearly has the problem.


peace

axeman
 
"In other words if he doesn't do something supernatural you won't believe him and if he does you certainly won't. Do you think the problem is his or yours? "
_________________________________________

No, I meant it exactly like like I said it.

On another subject, and since you may have some expertise in this area. Is software potentially eternal?

I believe we are almost mirror opposites. After secular education clear through graduate school and for several years afterward I ignored christianity and Christ. But after several deep personal experiences I completely converted. Beginning at that time I started living among ethnic cultures in other countries. These cultures were animistic and some satanistic, as a result of years of these experiences my christian convictions have grown very deep indeed. I even had a witchs' curse placed on me for several years and survived, though not unscathed.
 
You DID mean it that way?

So your saying:

1) If he DOESN'T do something supernatural, you won't believe him.

2) If he DOES do something supernatural I won't believe him.


For case #1, I will probably believe him, with only a little bit of evidence. Maybe just his word and his track record of being honest.

For case #2, I WONT believe him without incredibly strong evidence, and I WILL believe him WITH incredibly strong evidence.


Not sure what you mean by "software potentially eternal".
Explain further.

Sounds like mirror opposites. The more I study and research
the more I conclude that all god belief is man made.
The more I understand that no one religion has any more
evidence than any other, and that all of it basically comes up empty
as far as their supernatural claims.

As I have stated in some other threads, I have researched,
personally, all kinds of paranormal activity, including personal
experiments, and have never detected any kind of supernatural
"signal". Not even close.

That said.... I can point at thousands of people who personally
CLAIM to have experienced all kinds of super natural stuff, but
have consistently failed to provide any evidence or been
able to replicate such experiences.

I see no difference between a native american who claims
his animal spirit the wolf, came to him in the middle of the
night and spoke to him, and a christian who claims to have
seen mother mary, or someone who claims to have been
affected by a witches curse.

All very interesting human/emotional/psychological conditions,
but none of which I have ever seen grounded in
physical reality. As far as I can tell, it's all just in your head.
There is also plenty of research that shows what you
BELIEVE can physically affect your body, wether or not
it is actually real.

Round up 1000 voodoo priests and have them all cast
the nastiest of voodoo spells on me, and I guarantee
NOTHING will change in my life, that could not be explained by mere chance.

Do the same with someone who completely believes in
voodoo and I can almost guarantee he will be very
affected by this knowledge of curses being placed on him.
He may become more accident prone, as well as get physically ill,
not too mention immediately entering a state of sheer panic.

Interesting stuff.


peace

axeman





Quote from Doubter:

"In other words if he doesn't do something supernatural you won't believe him and if he does you certainly won't. Do you think the problem is his or yours? "
_________________________________________

No, I meant it exactly like like I said it.

On another subject, and since you may have some expertise in this area. Is software potentially eternal?

I believe we are almost mirror opposites. After secular education clear through graduate school and for several years afterward I ignored christianity and Christ. But after several deep personal experiences I completely converted. Beginning at that time I started living among ethnic cultures in other countries. These cultures were animistic and some satanistic, as a result of years of these experiences my christian convictions have grown very deep indeed. I even had a witchs' curse placed on me for several years and survived, though not unscathed.
More...
 
STARKE, Florida (AP) -- An unrepentant Paul Hill boasted Tuesday on the eve of his execution for the shotgun slaying of an abortion doctor: "I expect a great reward in heaven."

Barring an unlikely last-minute stay, the 49-year-old former minister will be put to death by lethal injection Wednesday evening for the 1994 murders in Pensacola of Dr. John Britton and his escort.

Hill has not appealed and will be the first person executed in the United States for anti-abortion violence. (Full story)

In a jailhouse interview, Hill suggested the state will be making a martyr out of him.

"The sooner I am executed ... the sooner I am going to heaven," he said. "I expect a great reward in heaven. I am looking forward to glory. I don't feel remorse."

"More people should act as I have acted," Hill added.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Isn't religions effect on man just grand?
Now remember...this guy is a MINISTER, and his
interpretation of the bible must be at least as good as yours, no? :D

Ever wonder why you never hear of atheists killing people
in the name of atheism, but people killing in the name
of god is so historically common??

This is the core problem with religion. It's followers put
gods law above man's law, and the above is the result.

Yet another example of why mans law, formed by reason,
is superior to gods law ( which is also man made as far
as I can tell, but not based on reason. )

peace

axeman
 
1) If he DOESN'T do something supernatural, you won't believe him.

2) If he DOES do something supernatural I won't believe him.
axeman
_______________________________________

In my version it was "you" in both cases.
____________________________________
Not sure what you mean by "software potentially eternal".
Explain further.
axeman
______________________________________

My understanding is that software is a series or arrangement of electrical impulses in a certain order. If that is correct then couldn't that be potentially eternal or never wear out or decay. If the device it was stored on wore out could it not have been transferred to another device indefinitely.
________________________________

Round up 1000 voodoo priests and have them all cast
the nastiest of voodoo spells on me, and I guarantee
NOTHING will change in my life, that could not be explained by mere chance.
axeman
________________________________

I used to think that myself. You might explain it away by chance but if you're dead you're dead. Sure it can all be explained away by chance but if enough of those things happen then for me the odds of my having all the answers starts to go down. Research is great but living the experiment is better.
______________________________________

Do the same with someone who completely believes in
voodoo and I can almost guarantee he will be very
affected by this knowledge of curses being placed on him.
He may become more accident prone, as well as get physically ill,
not too mention immediately entering a state of sheer panic.
axeman
_______________________________________

This is a commonly held belief but I know of a situation where a position was cursed and everyone who held that position died or was crippled for life until the curser died. None of the people who died believed whatsoever in voodoo or had control over their actions at the time of the accidents. Most people like to believe as you do but it just doesn't work that way in those dark cultures. If the victim is of the same culture and beliefs as the witch then your senario is pretty true but the shocker is when it jumps culture and belief systems. Years ago I felt this way but now why chance it?
 
Now remember...this guy is a MINISTER, and his
interpretation of the bible must be at least as good as yours, no?
axeman
_________________________________________

For $24.95 and a signature anyone can become a minister. My interpretation of "shedding innocent blood" obviously doesn't agree with his although I don't feel very sorry for the abortionist either.
___________________________________________

Ever wonder why you never hear of atheists killing people
in the name of atheism, but people killing in the name
of god is so historically common??
axeman
__________________________________

1. I seriously doubt the atheist media would report such a thing.

2. Wan't this what Hitler did?
____________________________________________

Yet another example of why mans law, formed by reason,
is superior to gods law ( which is also man made as far
as I can tell, but not based on reason. )
axeman
___________________________________

Again, reason can go very strange in different cultures.
 
"My understanding is that software is a series or arrangement of electrical impulses in a certain order. If that is correct then couldn't that be potentially eternal or never wear out or decay. If the device it was stored on wore out could it not have been transferred to another device indefinitely."

Yes, this is possible.


" I used to think that myself. You might explain it away by chance but if you're dead you're dead. Sure it can all be explained away by chance but if enough of those things happen then for me the odds of my having all the answers starts to go down. Research is great but living the experiment is better."

I and science disagree with you. Living the experiment
is not a big enough sample set to draw conclusions in
many cases.

If I did a mass mailing to 10 million people using their full
name that said something like:

Tomorrow, YOU [insert persons name here], will be kicked
by a giraffe, I will certainly be correct a few times sooner or later.
Now the people who DID get kicked by a giraffe tomorrow might
believe that this was an absolutely incredible vision and that
I HAVE TO posses some supernatural powers.
Of course, this would not be at all true.
People who remember "Weird" things that happen to them, and
correlate that to some supernatural cause are simply
being "fooled by randomness", very much in the same way
Taleb describes in his trading book :D


"This is a commonly held belief but I know of a situation where a position was cursed and everyone who held that position died or was crippled for life until the curser died. None of the people who died believed whatsoever in voodoo or had control over their actions at the time of the accidents. Most people like to believe as you do but it just doesn't work that way in those dark cultures. If the victim is of the same culture and beliefs as the witch then your scenario is pretty true but the shocker is when it jumps culture and belief systems. Years ago I felt this way but now why chance it? "

What does this prove? Without a proper statistical analysis,
it tells us absolutely nothing.
It is a matter of statistical fact that sooner or later, someone
who does NOT believe in voodoo will die of a strange death
shortly after a voodo curse is placed on them.
If this case NEVER happened, then THAT would truly be strange,
because it would imply that some strange force was PREVENTING
a valid statistical case from ever occurring.

Can you point to a single double blind study done on
voodoo and it's effects on non-believers who are not
aware that voodoo curses are being placed on them, which
shows a clear statistical correlation between the curse
on the person and bad things happening to said person?

I doubt it :D


peace

axeman
 
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