judge not moving 10 commandments statue from u.s.a. gov. property

Quote from Doubter:

Obviously you and doubter feel differently.
TM
_____________________________________

TM Sorry I mislead you. I too feel very strongly that these rules or standards came from God. Two ways 1. via the commands and the scriptures and 2. imparted somewhat as "eternity in their hearts.":)
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great!!!....i'm going to leave this on going argument in your hands as my personal representative :D ....i can;t type anymore and i have to get some work done.....great debate though and i would encourage AXE, STU and You to keep it going and to keep it civil like it has been....very refreshing
 
That is still an assertion you have not provided any evidence for.

Even in religious based societies with religious based rules,
I am not aware of any evidence that a god somehow handed
over these set of rules to a man.

To use moses as an example... how do we KNOW that
god spoke to moses and that moses wasn't just some cook
who heard voices and carved some stuff on stone plates?

If some dude today, walked out of a cave behind my
home with some stone tablets that he carved, and claimed
that these are the NEWLY REVISED commandments spoken
to HIM and HIM ALONE by GOD himself, he would be
considered insane without some SERIOUS evidence to
back up that extraordinary claim.

Even relgious leaders would dismiss him outright.

Yet we have a large group of people who happily ACCEPT
the very SAME event in story book format by unknown authors.

Things that make you go HMMMMMMMMM :D



peace

axeman




Quote from TM_Direct:

mongols and romans lasted a lot longer then any other empires....My point is and remains that man did not just create these rules on his own....I believe they were given to him by God...Obviously you and doubter feel differently.
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When two people are involved they each have a different reality. Those realities are based on their thoughts, background, culture, and many other things making up that reality. But if only two are involved there is one more reality that is involved and that is the right reality. Either of the two human realities may be closer or farther away from the right one or maybe right on. Now the problem arises as to what the right reality is and where it came from or is coming from.
 
I would require the same standards of proof that
our scientific community must provide for
something to be accepted as true.

If tomorrow I claimed to have successfully built a device
which starts and maintains a cold fusion reaction which
could be used to power entire cities "cleanly", what
evidence would I be required to produce???

A claim that god spoke to only ME and gave me these
commandments that ALL MEN everywhere should follow, is
a far greater claim.

Should this claim require even MORE evidence than would
be required of me for my cold fusion claim?

I hope this is an obvious yes.

In the cold fusion experiment, I would have to reproduce
the experiment for all to see.
I would have to show other scientists how it's done and
have them replicate my results.
I would have to show my design to all the scientists and
have them review my design and data and results.


Now how could I prove that god gave me these new commandments?

At the very least I would have to produce a video tape of the event. But even that would not be enough and certainly
does not match the level of evidence I provided for my cold fusion experiment.
People could claim it was a cool computer graphics hoax.

The easiest thing to do, would be to simply ask god to present
himself in front of all man kind, all at once, and let them
know that he did in fact give ME these commands to spread
among man, and that all man should follow them.
That I was official his spokeman from now on.
This would be a rather TRIVIAL thing for an all powerful entity to do.


Funny how this never happens.


peace

axeman


Quote from TM_Direct:

what proof would you require?
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Quote from axeman:

I would require the same standards of proof that
our scientific community must provide for
something to be accepted as true.

If tomorrow I claimed to have successfully built a device
which starts and maintains a cold fusion reaction which
could be used to power entire cities "cleanly", what
evidence would I be required to produce???

A claim that god spoke to only ME and gave me these
commandments that ALL MEN everywhere should follow, is
a far greater claim.

Should this claim require even MORE evidence than would
be required of me for my cold fusion claim?

I hope this is an obvious yes.

In the cold fusion experiment, I would have to reproduce
the experiment for all to see.
I would have to show other scientists how it's done and
have them replicate my results.
I would have to show my design to all the scientists and
have them review my design and data and results.


Now how could I prove that god gave me these new commandments?

At the very least I would have to produce a video tape of the event. But even that would not be enough and certainly
does not match the level of evidence I provided for my cold fusion experiment.
People could claim it was a cool computer graphics hoax.

The easiest thing to do, would be to simply ask god to present
himself in front of all man kind, all at once, and let them
know that he did in fact give ME these commands to spread
among man, and that all man should follow them.
That I was official his spokeman from now on.
This would be a rather TRIVIAL thing for an all powerful entity to do.


Funny how this never happens.


peace


axeman
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...I see...so according to you....Aristotle, socrates and say....Julius Ceaser never existed???? we have written works and first hand accounts of their actions, but since there is no kodak or video .....it's highly unlikely they actually did that?????
 
The easiest thing to do, would be to simply ask god to present
himself in front of all man kind, all at once, and let them
know that he did in fact give ME these commands to spread
among man, and that all man should follow them.
That I was official his spokeman from now on.
This would be a rather TRIVIAL thing for an all powerful entity to do.
axeman
______________________________

My impression was that is exactly what Christ did. Didn't He say "How many times will you ask for a sign and still not believe?"
 
The easiest thing to do, would be to simply ask god to present
himself in front of all man kind, all at once, and let them
know that he did in fact give ME these commands to spread
among man, and that all man should follow them.
That I was official his spokeman from now on.
This would be a rather TRIVIAL thing for an all powerful entity to do.


Funny how this never happens.


Funny how we demand this proof or our creator...but assuming it did happen and only 1000 people saw it.....you would only believe if you saw, not take other's account...
 
That's not what i'm saying.

We have evidence that these people existed, including
personal artifacts from them.

However, we don't have any written works that
claim aristotle flew around the world in 10 seconds
under his own power.

In other words, I have not heard of any accounts of
these men which contradict what is known as humanly possible
or directly against what is known as possible in general.

If you were to show me a diary of aristotle that claimed
he was abducted by zeus and taken to heaven for a day,
I would reject that claim outright based on the ratio of
evidence to the grandness of the claim.


peace

axeman



Quote from TM_Direct:



...I see...so according to you....Aristotle, socrates and say....Julius Ceaser never existed???? we have written works and first hand accounts of their actions, but since there is no kodak or video .....it's highly unlikely they actually did that?????
More...
 
Quote from axeman:

That's not what i'm saying.

We have evidence that these people existed, including
personal artifacts from them.

However, we don't have any written works that
claim aristotle flew around the world in 10 seconds
under his own power.

In other words, I have not heard of any accounts of
these men which contradict what is known as humanly possible
or directly against what is known as possible in general.

If you were to show me a diary of aristotle that claimed
he was abducted by zeus and taken to heaven for day,
I would reject that claim outright based on the ratio of
evidence to the grandness of the claim.


peace

axeman
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What about the stigmata that some very pios people get...padre pio comes to mind???
 
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