Jordan Peterson

[expiated]

There are a few thoughts expressed in this video that I will want unpack (if I can) when I have the time.

For one thing, I see Peterson as tapping into a number of truths in this part of the video [19:28]. The first from Ecclesiastes 1:9.

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Peterson is humble enough to recognize that the past has already established what works and what does not—what is wisdom and what is folly—and that the best thing for us to do is examine history and glean from it the kernels of truth that will empower us to live life well… that we shouldn’t go around thinking we are smarter than everyone else or more enlightened than all who have gone before us. The Bible hints at this in a number of ways, the following being just two examples…

It is the glory of God to conceal things, but the glory of kings is to search things out. (Proverbs 25:2)

For I want you to know how great a struggle I have for you and for those at Laodicea and for all who have not seen me face to face, that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, to reach all the riches of full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of God's mystery, which is Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. (Colossians 2:1-3)

Interviewer: Do you view yourself as a prophet? As religion declines, you go on this world tour. Millions of people read your books. Probably billions of people watch your videos online. Do you see yourself as sort of a new religious phenomenon for people?

Peterson: Not new… and I see myself as fortunate. That's how I see myself—that I have the opportunity to do this.

Interviewer: But, are you a prophet?

Peterson: See, to say yes or no, I have to think about how I might conceptualize… how what I'm doing might be conceptualized.

No, I think I see myself as a psychologist, and fundamentally, I am a psychologist. I am a behavioral psychologist, and I'm very interested in… I got very interested in psychoanalytic thinking—especially the Jungian variant. And I'm a professor, and I'm doing that on a much larger stage, let's say. But, that's really what I'm doing. And so, it's a combination of those two things.

I speak about religious matters, but I don't see myself as a religious leader. I don’t want to make that…although I speak about those things…

Interviewer: Are you worried that could happen—that you could become a kind of, a sort of pseudo religious figure to people?

Peterson: Well, you know, this has been going on for quite a while and I don't think it has happened; and so no, I don’t think it'll happen. And I think there's ways of mitigating that with careful attention and careful speech. I mean, it's…

And I don't want it—that which is also something. Because, if I wanted it, then, you know, that unconscious desire would—or even conscious desire—would shape the way that I speak. But, I don't want that. And I'm trying to point to things that are clearly beyond me, and I know they're beyond me.

I think part of what protects me against that, I suppose, is that I'm not trying to produce followers. I am actually trying to help people discover what it is… their relationship with that part of them that awe calls out.

And I believe that exists in everyone, I really do believe that. And so, in that sense, I'm on equal footing with everyone that I'm talking to. And I do believe that if they brought that out into the world—they can bring that out into the world—and if they did, that would be immensely beneficial for everyone. And so, it's not that easy to produce a cult of individuals.

And so, I think the fact that my focus is the individual is the best protection against that. I'm not asking for people to follow, partly because they need to figure out where to go for themselves. They really need that, and I don't know where each person should go, because each person is different—importantly different.

So no, I don't think that that's… if that were a real danger, I think it would have already happened. It's been quite a while now. I mean, this has been going on for five years, and it does, in some sense, continue to get bigger, I think. It's not that easy to see, especially during Covid. But, I don't think that's going to happen.

Peterson says he is "trying to help people discover what it is… their relationship with that part of them that awe calls out." Of course, whether he knows it or not, it is the Spirit of God who makes this happen in the way we were designed for it to happen. To quote Ecclesiastes 3:11...

He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man's heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end.

And as Ephesians 1:4 makes clear, our relationship with that part of us "that awe calls out" is a relationship with God:

Long before he laid down earth's foundations, he had us in mind, had settled on us as the focus of his love, to be made whole and holy by his love.

Jordan also recognizes that the ultimate goal is for each individual to be led from within, though 1 John 2:27 puts it a little differently…

But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.

Along those same lines, Peterson acknowledges that each individual is "importantly different," as does 1 Corinthians 12...

If each part of the body were the same part, there would be no body. But as it is, God put the parts in the body as he wanted them. He made a place for each one. So there are many parts, but only one body.

All of you together are the body of Christ. Each one of you is a part of that body. And in the church God has given a place first to apostles, second to prophets, and third to teachers. Then God has given a place to those who do miracles, those who have gifts of healing, those who can help others, those who are able to lead, and those who can speak in different kinds of languages.

Not all are apostles. Not all are prophets. Not all are teachers. Not all do miracles. Not all have gifts of healing. Not all speak in different kinds of languages. Not all interpret those languages. Continue to give your attention to the spiritual gifts you consider to be the greatest.

Romans 12 puts it this way...

God has given me a special gift, and that is why I have something to say to each one of you. Don't think that you are better than you really are. You must see yourself just as you are. Decide what you are by the faith God has given each of us.

Each one of us has one body, and that body has many parts. These parts don't all do the same thing. In the same way, we are many people, but in Christ we are all one body. We are the parts of that body, and each part belongs to all the others.

We all have different gifts. Each gift came because of the grace God gave us. Whoever has the gift of prophecy should use that gift in a way that fits the kind of faith they have. Whoever has the gift of serving should serve. Whoever has the gift of teaching should teach. Whoever has the gift of comforting others should do that. Whoever has the gift of giving to help others should give generously. Whoever has the gift of leading should work hard at it. Whoever has the gift of showing kindness to others should do it gladly.

 

[Overnight]

...

We all have different gifts. Each gift came because of the grace God gave us. Whoever has the gift of prophecy should use that gift in a way that fits the kind of faith they have. Whoever has the gift of serving should serve. Whoever has the gift of teaching should teach. Whoever has the gift of comforting others should do that. Whoever has the gift of giving to help others should give generously. Whoever has the gift of leading should work hard at it. Whoever has the gift of showing kindness to others should do it gladly.

What about my gift for using video analogies of sight and sound to get my point across? Are the people who do not appreciate it heathens and will burn in hell?

Romans 12. What a joke. Hey, Christ, bring back my dad so we can have a chat. Otherwise yer a shitlicker who does not exist, except in the minds of the blind faithful.

 

[stu]

Amen to that
Surely it can't be healthy to believe all that condescending bullshit from Jordan - Physician Heal Thyself - Peterson and the holier than thou ET bible thumpers, who insist by one derranged idea to the next it's necessary for no good reason to worship a totally imaginary zombie who supposedly promised to BRB 2,000 years ago.

In my opinion, if I may, holding onto any fond memories you can is a proper and dependable state of mind, rather than the insanity that entails from superstitious religious beliefs.

Better to have lived good times and lost them, than to never have lived them at all.

Good luck and by the way, it's true your videos generally suck but don't let a little detail stop you dude. Otherwise it wouldn't quite be you, would it!

 

[expiated]

Jordan Peterson is perceptive enough to recognize that human beings have intrinsic value, but it is unclear to me just where he thinks this value is derived. Of course, the Bible informs us that it stems from the fact that we are image bearers of the Divine, thereby granting us dignity, value and worth…

"But I give you one command. You must not eat meat that still has its life (blood) in it. Also, I will demand your blood for your lives. That is, I will demand the life of any person or animal that takes a human life. God made humans to be like himself. So whoever kills a person must be killed by another person." (Genesis 9:4-6)

[27:30]

Peterson: The whole reason we have rights… well, there's a lot of reasons we have rights, because we're of intrinsic value and societies that don't recognize those rights collapse very rapidly. So, it's not like they're granted to us. We fail to recognize our intrinsic value at our peril. That's the real truth of the matter.

But, when you make those rights explicit and grant what limit the ability of law to transgress against that, you do that to not allow the sorts of things that are happening now, to happen. And so, it's never danger, and [then], here's the thing we do about that's safe. It's danger, and here's what we could do, but that also has its dangers. And then the political conversation is: "Which danger is worse?"

What are the societies that failed to recognize human rights which quickly collapsed? Obviously, Nazi Germany comes to mind. You also have the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. But, there are others, such as the Central African Republic, Venezuela, etc. And the continued existence of a number of nations under their current structure seems tenuous at best, with their governments seeming to act out of what looks to be an almost hysterical sense of pending doom, such as China, North Korea, and Cuba.

This belief in intrinsic value is at the very heart of the founding on the USA…

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Unfortunately, much of progressive America—many within the secular left—now have this all backwards, believing the only rights belonging to citizens are those which are granted by the government, mind you; and the only power they are permitted to demonstrate shall be at the government's discretion, with the role of the populace being to give the government free reign, and to guaranty its safety and its preservation, no matter what it does.

 

[expiated]

J. P. says that whether God exists is not the issue, and that what is the issue is: Why do we have a religious instinct?

But, what if the reason we have a religious instinct is because God exists?

Even Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. (Romans 2:14-15 NLT)

Yes, it is God who is working in you. He helps you want to do what pleases him, and he gives you the power to do it. (Philippians 2:13 ERV)

[33:53]

Peterson: You know, on the materialist atheist side, this… let's say the scientific side—although it's not really that—there's this insistence that religion is nothing but a set of mistaken scientific propositions about the nature of reality, which it's certainly… that's not a very sophisticated analysis.

And I've seen this sort of thing start to happen to people like Richard Dawkins. I mean, he's fallen prey, he's become victim to the collapse of the religious into the political. It's not good, and this has nothing to do with arguments about, you know, do I believe in God or does God exist?

It's like, that's not the point of this… that's not the point. That's not the issue here.

The issue is: we have a religious instinct. And then the question is, why? And then the question is, well what happens when it's not nourished? Where does it go? What does it do?

Well, the rationalist idea is, well if we get rid of all that superstitious claptrap, we'll just be like straight rationalist materialists, and the world will move in a positive direction. It's like it… no… no… wrong… too simple.

That isn't… where do we get our values? And that's the conversation I'm trying to have with people. That's a big part of it is… Look, science does not provide values. We need values or nihilism reins, and you want that? No! So, where do we get our values? And if there are values, are some values higher than others? And if so, what are the highest values? And what are they opposed to, and how do we embody them?

These aren't conversations for children. This is serious stuff, and it's underneath all this noise and terror that we see playing out so destructively.

The idea that if we got rid of Christianity (I'm not going to argue for any other religion) we would all be straight rationalist materialists, and the world would move in a positive direction is not merely too simple—it's flat out wrong!

It's estimated that there have been over a billion, six hundred thirty-one million abortions worldwide since 1980—the murder of over a billion defenseless human beings while still in their mothers' wombs, with countless people seriously arguing that this has been a good thing. This is what happens when we reject God's values. It's how the Nazis were able to rationalize inhumane treatment towards others because they were deemed to be "unworthy of life."

Very often, people are not rational creatures. Rather, they are regularly ruled by their emotions, and at times, they are downright evil!

Jordan asks where our religious instincts will go if they are not nourished? Well, read Romans 1:12 (ERV).

Instead of honoring the divine greatness of God, who lives forever, they traded it for the worship of idols—things made to look like humans, who get sick and die, or like birds, animals, and snakes.

People idolize other people: athletes, sports teams, artists, entertainers, leaders, etc. Or they bow down at the alter of this cause or that: global warming, critical race theory, save the whales, gender equality, mandatory vaccinations, occupy Wallstreet, Black lives matter, green new deal, etc. And they do so with a religious fervor rivaling that of the most radical cult members, dehumanizing anyone who does not join them.

Nonmembers become "a basket of deplorables." Or it is suggested that they should be denied medical care. Or they are threatened with heavy fines or the loss of their jobs or businesses, or even the loss of their freedom. They are marginalized and demonized. They are pelted with eggs. They are followed into restrooms. They are held without bond for months on end. And the list goes on and on.

Because our all having a religious instinct is not the only issue. The other big issue is the fact that we all have a sinful nature!

(And what do we do about that?)

 

[Overnight]

...The other big issue is the fact that we all have a sinful nature!

(And what do we do about that?)

By what or whose measure are we sinful? Do you mean the God that slaughtered babies in Egypt simply because they were not Jewish? At the same time, abortion, which is killing a baby, is a sin? Jahweh is a POS deity that exists only in the minds of the deluded.

 

[expiated]

 

[piezoe]

This Peterson bit on the narrative and objective world touching, the morality of mankind and Christ, being so conveniently rationalized, because, as Peterson explains, we can ignore the lack of reliable evidence for the actual existence of a Christ at the right time and place, since, ya'know, at least a Christ could have lived. We do have narrative, the Bible -- never mind the difficulties of converting wine into water without any grapes handy.

This Peterson Conceit seems to be a another fine example of "I'll see it when I believe it." The Trump supporters saw fraud everywhere once they believed the election was stolen. Peterson sees Christ once he believes it is not impossible for a Christ to have lived, never mind the little grape problem, or having to push the big stone back after being dead for three days. By God!, there must be a reason for our basic morality. What better reason than Christ had a hand in it. See, once you believe, then the explanation is revealed. "I'll see it when I believe it!" This little six word expression illustrates what we mean by "Faith."

So if, "I'll see it when I believe it," illustrates the word "Faith," I suppose, "I'll believe it when I see it," illustrates the word "Skepticism."

 

[stu]

"If you want to appear very profound and convince people to take you seriously, but have nothing of value to say, there is a tried and tested method.

First, take some extremely obvious platitude or truism. Make sure it actually does contain some insight, though it can be rather vague. Something like “if you’re too conciliatory, you will sometimes get taken advantage of” or “many moral values are similar across human societies.”

Then, try to restate your platitude using as many words as possible, as unintelligibly as possible, while never repeating yourself exactly. Use highly technical language drawn from many different academic disciplines, so that no one person will ever have adequate training to fully evaluate your work. Construct elaborate theories with many parts. Draw diagrams. Use italics liberally to indicate that you are using words in a highly specific and idiosyncratic sense. Never say anything too specific, and if you do, qualify it heavily so that you can always insist you meant the opposite.

Then evangelize: speak as confidently as possible, as if you are sharing God’s own truth. Accept no criticisms: insist that any skeptic has either misinterpreted you or has actually already admitted that you are correct. Talk as much as possible and listen as little as possible. Follow these steps, and your success will be assured. (It does help if you are male and Caucasian.)

Jordan Peterson appears very profound and has convinced many people to take him seriously. Yet he has almost nothing of value to say. This should be obvious to anyone who has spent even a few moments critically examining his writings and speeches, which are comically befuddled, pompous, and ignorant. They are half nonsense, half banality. In a reasonable world, Peterson would be seen as the kind of tedious crackpot that one hopes not to get seated next to on a train."

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve

 

[expiated]