join Group One / DRW Trading Group or Goldman as i-banking analyst?

Quote from carl1111:

Deringer- that is my first instinct as well, but both trading and banking have become commodities in many ways. If I do trading and succeed, I could earn what a VP in banking earns by my fourth year in trading. If I am not good at trading I will still have time to study for my GMAT, get my CFA, and then hopefully get in to a good business school from which I could hopefully join an investment banking again but as an associate. Thus it makes the decision more murky.
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Let me generalize, there are clearly some diverse opinion here, but keep in mind that you are asking a bunch of traders, so our perception of the investment banking world is indirect. I doubt there are very many ex-ibankers reading this forum. My only association with ibanking was that my partner at a hedge fund was head of tech banking for Solly, and I have never actually worked on a deal.

If you are hesitating, and it seems you are, take the GS offer. It is that simple. Your undergrad degree in b-school would be better suited for i-banking anyways. But the failure rate at GS/MS ibanking is as high as a trading trainee. Go to NY scene, and there are plenty of failed GS/MS ibanking associates walking around, similar to trading, very few would make it to VP and above.

And in my opinion, there are very few firms that would be comparable to DRW, Susquehanna that some one mentioned, Hull, maybe Wolverine and Peak6, and maybe Timber Hill. I talked to Trent Cutler a couple of times, and I am not that impressed. Ronin is decent, but still only been around a few years.

Good luck.
 
But the failure rate at GS/MS ibanking is as high as a trading trainee. Go to NY scene, and there are plenty of failed GS/MS ibanking associates walking around, similar to trading
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Sorry, but now that is just awful advice.

There aren't ex-GS/MS ibanking associates walking around. If they are, it's by choice and they're just taking a vacation before they pursue something new.

The road to other jobs is very accessible for former investment bankers, especially from top-tier firms. They're not sitting at home waiting by the phone.

But ex-traders who have failed? Now *those* guys are walking around or sitting around, and they have to keep on trading because they have nowhere else to go.
 
geneva is solid, good training and good commission rates. altea has some good traders but their commish is through the roof and they dont pay you a salary when you start.
 
Quote from carl1111:

Rufus 4000- Have you ever heard of firms such as Vankar, Altea, Geneva? What are your thoughts on these firms.
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None of them are in the same ballpark as the tier-1 firms. Yes, I know two of them rather well. I thought you were specifically talking about DRW, there is a good training program there.

Edited: If these include the firm that you got your offer from. Then I agree with some of the others, you would be foolish not to take the offer from GS ibanking.
 
Quote from Deringer:

Sorry, but now that is just awful advice.

There aren't ex-GS/MS ibanking associates walking around. If they are, it's by choice and they're just taking a vacation before they pursue something new.

The road to other jobs is very accessible for former investment bankers, especially from top-name firms.

But ex-traders who have failed? Now *those* guys are walking around, and they have to keep on trading because they have nowhere else to go. Nobody wants to hire them.
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Heh, I wish that were true. I know of a couple of ex-GS ibanking associates that waited for almost 1.5 years before getting employed elsewhere. And both of them are not the bottom 10% of their class either.

First of all, let me clarify something, I don't consider associates true "bankers" at all (that's like calling an trading associate a "trader"), since by definition, they have not worked as leads on any of the deals. You are right that ex-VPs of ibanking are in high demand, since they have worked on multiple deals, and as leads in a few, and have the rolodexes to match. The multinationals would hire the ex-VPs as director of strategic acquisitions, etc. Hence the big chasm between associate and VP in ibanking.

I move from Chicago (a town dominated by traders) to NY (a town divided between ibankers and HF managers) last year, and went to quite a few Chrismas parties. At those parties, I ran into more than my share of ex-ibanking associates.
 
I know of a couple of ex-GS ibanking associates that waited for almost 1.5 years before getting employed elsewhere. And both of them are not the bottom 10% of their class either.
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That's not the norm. That's like someone telling me that a UPenn grad hasn't found work in 12 months since graduation. Sure, a few might exist, but that's certainly not the norm.

If an ex-GS banker (associates are called bankers too) is out of work for a year and a half, most likely, it's by choice. I doubt it's because he hasn't received any kind of offers at all. Maybe he is picky and doesn't want to return to work for anything less than $100K. So ex-GS bankers aren't starving or ever going to have to starve. All the lesser jobs are easily available to them. But that's not the case for ex-marketmakers/traders who didn't make it.
 
Quote from Deringer:

Sorry, but now that is just awful advice.

There aren't ex-GS/MS ibanking associates walking around. If they are, it's by choice and they're just taking a vacation before they pursue something new.

The road to other jobs is very accessible for former investment bankers, especially from top-tier firms. They're not sitting at home waiting by the phone.

But ex-traders who have failed? Now *those* guys are walking around or sitting around, and they have to keep on trading because they have nowhere else to go.
More...

So true.
 
Take the GS job offer. You can teach yourself trading on the side and maybe make a lateral move. I am 99.99 percent sure that you will make more money in the short term and be happier.

If you impress some department heads at GS -especially the the trading department heads. They will pull you over there. It can happen (or at least it has in the past). Take your time to learn the business from a couple different angles.

Sure you may go to trading firm XYZ and make millions of the bat. No one can be certain of that---seeing as you are not there trading yet. But I am certain if you were at GS this year --you would probably be taking down 150k or more and learning how to trade on your own (and have money to do it with--if you make some NYC sacrifices). I am a 100% sure of that. (even the GS secretaries get big enough bonuses to fund trading accounts)

You have a golden oppty ----at GS. I would take it. You can trade Asian markets and forex at night with IB or position trade.

Yes, they are going to work you to death at GS. But it is just busy work and shit to punish you for being a GS newbie. You are not going to be stressed like ---sweating ticks in the first year. You should be ok juggling your first year at GS and learning how to trade. You are young and have the rest of your life. Take your time. Learning how to trade takes a lot longer and is a lot harder then learning how to be a smooth talking ass kissing IB newbie.

Put it this way. You will work less and will have a less stressful environment at GS. You only have to take orders. Taking orders and figuring out a way to make money are a totally different bill of goods.

Take it from me kid. Grab that G-Sachs ticket. You do not have to be at a trading desk to learn how to trade and sometimes it is better that way.
 
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