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John Arnold and the death benefit
- Thread starter drownpruf
- Start date
Quote from drownpruf:
3) Ask any of your geriatric relatives if they want to give up their Medicare. 9/10 (more like 95/100) go homicidal even discussing cuts to Medicare. Please do not insult us by mentioning Medicare being wholly funded by contributions. Now that would be comical.
Medicare is just the point. It's busting the budget because the healthy can't support the unhealthy. So it's subsidized by the entire rest of society. But when you force this type of plan on the entire society through a program like obamacare, who is left to be forced to subsidize it. Nobody. Which means one of two things will happen.
1. death panels, or
2. Yellen will decide it's yet another reason for 'stimulus'
Quote from drownpruf:
1) Correct
2) Correct
3) a) I don't support extortion, regardless of the party. b) I support a national healthcare system, as universal coverage is necessary to maintain Medicare. Insurance only works when the healthy are compelled to pay for the sick and aged. I cannot foresee needing ACA, but agree with it in principle, as did the Heritage Foundation back in the late 80s. c) Ask any of your geriatric relatives if they want to give up their Medicare. 9/10 (more like 95/100) go homicidal even discussing cuts to Medicare.
4) Not addressed to you specifically.
3) a) I disagree that this is extortion, it's just a budget fight.
b) We've sorta had this whole medicare argument before so I'll just say that i don't believe the US govt should be involved in the administration of any social services, and that while they're a present reality, we should be trying to achieve less costly alternatives and definitely not adding entitlements.. i think Ron Paul would agree with that.
c) I know, that's what i was pointing out about people being dependent on these programs, and why they're near untouchable, which is a major problem.
4) ya i assumed you didn't think i was farenthold, i just don't know what he said that you were referring to.
Imo, that's a position that exists only in the laboratory of ideological purity; no government on earth is, or ever has been, at the level of not "any" involvement. Maybe the feudal societies and banana republics have come the closest.Quote from PiggyBank:
b) We've sorta had this whole medicare argument before so I'll just say that i don't believe the US govt should be involved in the administration of any social services,
i know that's your opinion, we must have had this argument a dozen times. And i've pointed out that the federal govt didn't operate a single social program before the new deal. the States can do (almost) whatever they want, the feds have specific obligations and restrictions.Quote from Ricter:
Imo, that's a position that exists only in the laboratory of ideological purity; no government on earth is, or ever has been, at the level of not "any" involvement. Maybe the feudal societies and banana republics have come the closest.
Quote from Lucrum:
Huh? What's that got to do with your last alias?
Contrary to all my observations Tsing Tao says you're a smart guy. I keep trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. So far all you've managed to accomplish is confirming my observations.
You wanna try again?
Slavery - law of the land upheld by the supreme court and increasingly opposed by more and more citizens just before the war.
Obamacare - law of the land upheld by the supreme court and opposed by increasingly large numbers of citizens. (mostly productive tax payer types)
The republicans are opposing it like they're supposed to because their constituents (productive tax payers) are telling them to oppose it. If "extortion" as you call it isn't allowed to oppose it then what is acceptable?
You're directly comparing Obamacare and slavery, in the sense that both were upheld by the Supremes. You Sir, are a fucking retard. And yes, I think you either suffered from fetal alcohol syndrome or did the damage yourself.
Quote from fhl:
Medicare is just the point. It's busting the budget because the healthy can't support the unhealthy. So it's subsidized by the entire rest of society. But when you force this type of plan on the entire society through a program like obamacare, who is left to be forced to subsidize it. Nobody. Which means one of two things will happen.
1. death panels, or
2. Yellen will decide it's yet another reason for 'stimulus'
Yeah, I am ok with death panels, but it's absurd. Where are the DPs under Medicare? Do you understand the process involved in underwriting? I don't think you do. Ask ma and pa to give up their Medicare and see what they say. An anecdote. I have an uncle sitting on a $10MM pension and he friggin loves Medicare. Thinks it's the best thing on Earth. A dyed in the wool Prescott-family republican. Ask 'em, libs and GOP alike -- ask them if they would give up Medicare. If they say yes then they're lying.
It's only sustainable through a legitimate underwriting policy. I don't know if ACA will work, but it has to be done to fund the entitlements already in place (for decades).
Quote from drownpruf:
Yeah, I am ok with death panels, but it's absurd. Where are the DPs under Medicare? Do you understand the process involved in underwriting? I don't think you do.
didn't you read my answer? medicare doesn't pay for itself. it is subsidized by the rest of society so it doesn't need death panels. they get all the health care they need because someone else helps pay for it.
in obamacare, there is nobody else left to pay for it because the whole country is the insured.
what exactly is there about that that you don't understand?
do you need a flowchart?
You make it sound like medicare provides unlimited care.Quote from fhl:
didn't you read my answer? medicare doesn't pay for itself. it is subsidized by the rest of society so it doesn't need death panels. they get all the health care they need because someone else helps pay for it.
in obamacare, there is nobody else left to pay for it because the whole country is the insured.
what exactly is there about that that you don't understand?
do you need a flowchart?
Quote from Ricter:
You make it sound like medicare provides unlimited care.
they get more than they pay for. their contributions don't cover the cost of medicare. the taxpayer makes up the balance.
is it any wonder why seniors love that program and would squawk if it went away?
but when the whole country is the insured there isn't any more 'outside parties' to fund what obamacare doesn't cover.
thus, benefits will have to be limited. or premiums will go sky high.