Jocke's 1-year goal

Quote from triple_j:



Hey, don't you dare lecture me: I've been trading for a decade now, that's longer than you and probably longer than 99% of the people here.

I stand by what I said and that is paper trading is meaningless. If you want to observe a contract/stock that's OK, but to base future trading prospects on past paper trades is idiocy.

Why is 2 minis inappropriate? That's just the right risk for a beginner. That comment right there shows your true colors.
People like you is the main reason why I don't visit forums much anymore. Rots o' luck.....

triple
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triple_J

Your opening phrase saids a lot...

Quote from triple_j:

I've been trading for a decade now, that's longer than you and probably longer than 99% of the people here...
triple
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Now...exactly how long do you know for fact...my length as a trader?

I'm truly curious.

Note: Based on what you said of how long you've been trading (decade = 10 years)...there's a 99.999999% chance you have not been trading longer than me :cool:

Please don't act like some little kid at the playground..."mine is bigger than yours...so there."

Especially when you have not seen mine (sarcasm).

Trading is a profession. We as traders have to learn how to be traders...just like any other academic pursuit that leads to that degree...sort'uv speak.

I'm glad my doctor has studied and read his books in college, same with my tax accountant, dentist, architect, cable guy at tech school and on and on.

Therefore, I also stand by my comments...

to tell a new trader or someone testing new trade setups to trade multiple contracts and to ignore paper trading is inappropriate without knowing exactly what that trader is trying to accomplish.

Once again...there is a difference between paper trading and realtime simulator along with posting live trades in a chat room which is what Jocke is doing.

The probabilities are much better a trader will succeed as a trader that practice first in comparison to a trader that doesn't practice using their tools in realtime simulator situations and instead just doved in (no pun intended) without practicing.

Enjoy your flight.

P.S. I've said my peace and will get back to reading J's journal price entries and exits.

NihabaAshi
 
Quote from NihabaAshi:

how would you like to be a passenger in a plane...thousands of feet above ground to hear the pilot say over the loud speakers...

(a newbie pilot that's had no training, never practice)...

"I'm new and I was told that if I really want to learn how to fly...I first gotta do it with real passengers or else my entire thinking process will be different - psychology will change, outlook and personality will change, etc...etc...Only way I'm gonna know if I can fly is not use that simulator crap...enjoy your flight."
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I know you meant well, but that analogy is dreadful. The pilot is responsible for peoples lives. Not their financial health, not their happiness, but their lives. As a trader you're responsible for some dollars in your brokerage account, not even in the same ballpark.
Quote from metooxx:

paper trading should be limited to kids with baseball cards; reinforces all the wrong things ...
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Succinctly stated. I realize Jocke is going to continue to paper-trade, to "test" strategies, and I suppose no great harm will come of it as long as he doesn't even begin to believe the numbers will translate over to the real thing.
 
Paper trading will probably be of more use for some traders than others. But being a novice trader I definitely think I can benefit from paper trading. I have limited capital, and once I start trading live I do not intend to blow it all in a month or two. This is probably THE time in my life where I still have a chance to fulfill my dreams – trade for a living!

I did some trading 4-5 months ago (http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8160&highlight=torntech). Things where going downhill, and I was given the advice to stay out of the market for a while to regroup and strategy building.

I post my paper trades in “real time” (1-2 sec lag) in a chat room. This gives me a similar feeling to real trading. Knowing there are other traders looking at what I do puts pressure on me, kind of the same as I put on myself during real trading. Also paper trading helps me focus on the chart, tape reading, otherwise I should have a big problem concentrating. First I hope to get a feeling for the nq/es and learn more about timing, entries and exits. I’m in no particular hurry to go live, unless I feel confident in my paper trading.

I will continue to paper trade and follow my plan. I know that posting paper trades is less qualifying than real trades. As long as ET lets me I hope to continue doing so. I thought it would be interesting for others to follow my path to pro trading. If not I guess there are about a zillion other threads here that could be of greater interest....
 
Quote from Magna:

I know you meant well, but that analogy is dreadful. The pilot is responsible for peoples lives. Not their financial health, not their happiness, but their lives. As a trader you're responsible for some dollars in your brokerage account, not even in the same ballpark.Succinctly stated. I realize Jocke is going to continue to paper-trade, to "test" strategies, and I suppose no great harm will come of it as long as he doesn't even begin to believe the numbers will translate over to the real thing.
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Magna,

Actually this analogy fits quite well with my life. Being in my early thirties with a wife and 2yo daughter with everything included (house cars etc) there is more at stake for me than "some dollars in your brokerage account".
 
Paper trading for a strategy that takes out just one NQ point can be extremely misleading.

In any case, I think all you guys trading for 1.00-1.50 on the NQ are completely nuts! :) :) :) You just won't be able to see the difference between noise and what actually makes the market move, if you limit yourself to 1pt targets.

Even worse, you'll begin to think you need to be in the market every second it's open, as in "omg, the market just jiggled 3 pts without me, I shoulda been there!" Every day the NQ makes several moves in which taking out 5pts is very conservative, even if you're a bit slow on timing.

JMO, but after discipline in taking losses and finding a consistent edge to apply, learning to sit on profitable trades is probably the last big hurdle to really maximizing your abilities as a trader -- loosen up those targets!
 
Quote from triple_j:



Hey, don't you dare lecture me: I've been trading for a decade now, that's longer than you and probably longer than 99% of the people here.

I stand by what I said and that is paper trading is meaningless. [/B]
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Triple is dead on right. If you belive paper trading works, then you obviously haven't made a cent in the real world.

Maybe you should stop hazing those guys that have been around awhile and ask em how they got there.

Jay
 
As some of us are reading your entries and exits along with any commentary...

I have a few questions...

1. What chart intervals are you using for your trades?

2. Are you going to post charts along with your trades?

3. Can you tell us what is your basic trading plan or are you using the realtime simulator phase to develop your trading plan?

4. Are you going to post all your recap here from your live realtime trade posts in the #IndexFutures room each trading day your trading?

5. Are you a scalper? If so...are you using "continuous TICK" charts for scalping?

(example charts like by ensign, neoticker, futuresource)

I guess this presses into question #1.

Also, MarathonTrading brought up a valid issue...

Quote from MarathonTrading:

Hi Jocke

I am a scalper myself and go for 1 - 1.25 S&P point.

I think it will be hard to make money if you go for 1 miniNq point and have to pay 5$ fee per r/t.

How do you intend to manage commissions once you go live?
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6. Last question for tonight, when you start trading with real money in June with 1 contract...

are you still going to post your journal here at ET or only in the live chat room?

By the way, ES reacted much better today than the NQ at some key pivot points while the NQ had the less wiggles in the first hour of trading...

hope you had a good one today.

Take care and good luck tomorrow.

NihabaAshi
 
Ive traded since 1986, and yes got crushed in 1987, so my point is that I've traded but I'm not an expert. It is difficult to paper trade and truly test a system because the execution of your positions don't give a true portrait paper trading. Get long or short in size and try to get filled, and then feel some pain and your game suddenly changes. Although if you don't get your feet wet and feel comfortable paper trading you will blow up your account when you go real time. Best of look tomorrow, hope the market gets crushed on the open.:D
inmate451
 
Quote from NihabaAshi:

As some of us are reading your entries and exits along with any commentary...

I have a few questions...

1. What chart intervals are you using for your trades?

2. Are you going to post charts along with your trades?

3. Can you tell us what is your basic trading plan or are you using the realtime simulator phase to develop your trading plan?

4. Are you going to post all your recap here from your live realtime trade posts in the #IndexFutures room each trading day your trading?

5. Are you a scalper? If so...are you using "continuous TICK" charts for scalping?

(example charts like by ensign, neoticker, futuresource)

I guess this presses into question #1.

Also, MarathonTrading brought up a valid issue...



6. Last question for tonight, when you start trading with real money in June with 1 contract...

are you still going to post your journal here at ET or only in the live chat room?

By the way, ES reacted much better today than the NQ at some key pivot points while the NQ had the less wiggles in the first hour of trading...

hope you had a good one today.

Take care and good luck tomorrow.

NihabaAshi
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1. 1 minute on 30-minute chart. I'm using Quotetracker with data from IB. Will have to do for now. LOL.
2. If I find a conveniently way to do so. Any suggestions? (have MetaStock)
3. Using my paper trading to develop plan.
4. Yes
5. I think I will do on average 10 r/ts per day. Scalper? I don't know. No, I'm not using continuos tick charts (see 1 above). Have tried Futuresource.
6. Absolutely, both.

Thanks, I should keep a closer eye on ES as well. How do you find the key pivot points?

Any suggestions is highly appreciated. Have a nice long week-end. J.
 
Quote from illiquid:

Paper trading for a strategy that takes out just one NQ point can be extremely misleading.

In any case, I think all you guys trading for 1.00-1.50 on the NQ are completely nuts! :) :) :) You just won't be able to see the difference between noise and what actually makes the market move, if you limit yourself to 1pt targets.

Even worse, you'll begin to think you need to be in the market every second it's open, as in "omg, the market just jiggled 3 pts without me, I shoulda been there!" Every day the NQ makes several moves in which taking out 5pts is very conservative, even if you're a bit slow on timing.

JMO, but after discipline in taking losses and finding a consistent edge to apply, learning to sit on profitable trades is probably the last big hurdle to really maximizing your abilities as a trader -- loosen up those targets!
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I agree. Could ever trailing stops be a good "solution"?
 
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