Jim Rogers

Visaria · Oct 8, 2012

Quote from tmarket:

I don't speculate in commodities, just stock index futures

if you trade stock index futures, you are indirectly trading the stocks of oil companies, gold miners, lead miners etc. So my point remains, you should look at how many children you are (indirectly) killing first before taking a dig at others.

piezoe · Oct 8, 2012

Quote from tmarket:

Speculation in commodities seems harmless, but there are huge costs to human lives and the environment around the world.

Gold in general has great PR. It's slick, it's hip, it's bling. But in a remote corner of West Africa, it's killing children.

Lead from illegal gold mines in northwestern Nigeria has sparked what Doctors Without Borders has called the worst case of environmental lead poisoning in years.

Gold mining has resulted in nearly 200,000 tons of mercury released in South America alone. ... levels in rivers and lakes, kills wildlife, and poisons drinking water supplies.

Nice that you are concerned. We can do better. We don't have to wreck the planet and ruin lives. At the minimum, we shouldn't be doing in other countries what we would not do in our own.

oldtime · Oct 9, 2012

Quote from piezoe:

Nice that you are concerned. We can do better. We don't have to wreck the planet and ruin lives. At the minimum, we shouldn't be doing in other countries what we would not do in our own.

we do it because they allow us to, the corporations job is to make money, it's the peoples job to protect the environment

same goes with governments, their job is to amass power, and it is the peoples job to limit them

oldtime · Oct 9, 2012

Quote from oldtime:

we do it because they allow us to, the corporations job is to make money, it's the peoples job to protect the environment

same goes with governments, their job is to amass power, and it is the peoples job to limit them

these documetaries I see that show poor fisherman in Nigeria who can't even fish anymore like they have for 10,000 years because Texaco polluted their river just doesn't cut it with me anymore.

It was their job to limit the government so it didn't have the power to sell them out, and it was their job to shut down Texaco.

both the government and Texaco were simply doing their jobs, but the people were not doing their job

It's like blaming children because they misbehave

Humpy · Oct 9, 2012

I think I prefer the idea of harmony between different groups not the endless warfare you seem to be suggesting OT.

Oh and btw if the children are misbehaving who do you blame ? Should Charlie Manson's parents been sent to jail for upbring a monster and poor, misunderstood Charlie set free ? I think not, That killer is still behind bars I suppose at only about $100,000 a year on the taxpayers ! He shoulda swung on a rope for free imho

oldtime · Oct 9, 2012

Quote from Humpy:

I think I prefer the idea of harmony between different groups not the endless warfare you seem to be suggesting OT.

Oh and btw if the children are misbehaving who do you blame ? Should Charlie Manson's parents been sent to jail for upbring a monster and poor, misunderstood Charlie set free ? I think not, That killer is still behind bars I suppose at only about $100,000 a year on the taxpayers ! He shoulda swung on a rope for free imho

all I am suggesting is civic respsonsibility. It is the citizens duty to control their government and the corporations which operate inside their borders

piezoe · Oct 10, 2012

Quote from oldtime:

we do it because they allow us to, the corporations job is to make money, it's the peoples job to protect the environment

same goes with governments, their job is to amass power, and it is the peoples job to limit them

Right about badly run corporations, wrong about government. But governments proper role is too complex to summarize in a word or two. That's what constitutions are about.

Well run corporations not only have to make money, but do it in way that protects and builds on their "brand" and public image so they don't impair their ability to make money in the future.

oldtime · Oct 10, 2012

Quote from piezoe:

Right about badly run corporations, wrong about government. But governments proper role is too complex to summarize in a word or two. That's what constitutions are about.

Well run corporations not only have to make money, but do it in way that protects and builds on their "brand" and public image so they don't impair their ability to make money in the future.

ha, ha, ha, How did polluting the rivers of Nigeria ever in any way hurt their "brand"? They don't even exist anymore. They did it for years and made a lot of money.

It is your duty to protect your land. Not just from corporations, but from your government.

You seem to be activist when it comes to corporations, but laissez faire when it comes to your government, like somehow they will always ultimately do what is right.

That's why I say both of them are like your kids who you must constantly be watching or they will just naturally do what is wrong because that is always what is the most fun.

piezoe · Oct 10, 2012

Quote from oldtime:

ha, ha, ha, How did polluting the rivers of Nigeria ever in any way hurt their "brand"? They don't even exist anymore. They did it for years and made a lot of money.

It is your duty to protect your land. Not just from corporations, but from your government.

You seem to be activist when it comes to corporations, but laissez faire when it comes to your government, like somehow they will always ultimately do what is right.

That's why I say both of them are like your kids who you must constantly be watching or they will just naturally do what is wrong because that is always what is the most fun.

Well I have no choice but to agree at least to some extent. Both corporations and government are, as you say, like your kids in that you have to be constantly vigilant and do your part to make sure they don't do things that are fun, or profitable, at the time but damaging in the end. Just look at what it cost BP to be careless in the Gulf.

I have to say, OT, that now Corporations that are badly run do pay for their mistakes. If they are only about making money, they won't last. In the past, 19th century and early twentieth century, they often got away with despoiling the environment because there was plenty of land and no one noticed, or if they did, no one cared. But we are no longer living in that world. Now people notice and speak up. The internet has made a big difference. The reason you know about Texaco wrecking the fishing waters in Nigeria is the bad press they have received, and this can cause them to either have to pay for clean-up, pay reparations to the fishermen, or lose their concessions. Same thing is happening in the Amazon, and now there is a backlash. First rate corporations don't do this kind of shit in the first place. Corporations, like individuals, have responsibilities, and when they behave irresponsibly they most often will have to pay either directly, or indirectly through bad press and loss of business.

Isn't Texaco part of Chevron now? It won't matter. When a company is bought, the buyer assumes the liabilities of company purchased. That's what, for example, came back to bite BOA in the ass after acquiring Merrill Lynch.

oldtime · Oct 10, 2012

Quote from piezoe:

Well I have no choice but to agree at least to some extent. Both corporations and government are, as you say, like your kids in that you have to be constantly vigilant and do your part to make sure they don't do things that are fun, or profitable, at the time but damaging in the end. Just look at what it cost BP to be careless in the Gulf.

I have to say, OT, that now Corporations that are badly run do pay for their mistakes. If they are only about making money, they won't last. In the past, 19th century and early twentieth century, they often got away with despoiling the environment because there was plenty of land and no one noticed, or if they did, no one cared. But we are no longer living in that world. Now people notice and speak up. The internet has made a big difference. The reason you know about Texaco wrecking the fishing waters in Nigeria is the bad press they have received, and this can cause them to either have to pay for clean-up, pay reparations to the fishermen, or lose their concessions. Same thing is happening in the Amazon, and now there is a backlash. First rate corporations don't do this kind of shit in the first place. Corporations, like individuals, have responsibilities, and when they behave irresponsibly they most often will have to pay either directly, or indirectly through bad press and loss of business.

Isn't Texaco part of Chevron now? It won't matter. When a company is bought, the buyer assumes the liabilities of company purchased. That's what, for example, came back to bite BOA in the ass after acquiring Merrill Lynch.

sorry piezoe, I'm a little touchy. I have family in Israel, and it doesn't bother me or them when some nutcase says they need to be wiped off the face of the map, we're use to that. But when a whole country of otherwise intelligent and well meaning people, just stand by and allow their government to say something like that, it reminds me that you get the government you deserve, and same thing goes for corporations. So the problem is not them, it's you and me. I guess that's just my mild conservative way of saying "power to the people". Yes, now it's Chevron, and they are still doing it, but it's legal (or not prosecuted) because they own the government. In my personal case, I have a problem with Monsanto, but I have never done anything about it, so their evil deeds are my evil deeds, because I am responsible for the government and the corporations. And that is why I won't shed one tear if we wipe out every man woman and poet off the face of the map in Iran.