Jesus Christ (What Christians, Jews, and Muslims Say About Him)

Quote from TraderZones:

Quote from riskfreetrading:

Here is another example of black/white tests in the Quran that just came to mind. In Arabic there is female and male form in the VERB even for animals/insects/etc.

Let us take the case of bees that go out and work , because they are discussed in the Quran. I think the Quran refer to them in female form (implied from the verb). Could someone with arabic expertise check this?

Now what does science say about working bees. Are the bees male or female?

YOU added "working". All bees work - when the drones fertilize the queen, they are dragged out to die. There are both male (drones) AND females (workers, queens).

In my head bees are males.

Your head is wrong.

My recollection is that in the Quran they are females. Do we know the sex of the bees, and if yes when did we know their sex?

Yes we know.

If their sex was know at time when Quran came, then this can be used as an example to test the Quran.

It obviously wasn't known to the Qu'ran, since there are both male and female bees.

If however this knowledge known only afterwards (which is likely as biology was know advanced back then) then the Quran made the correct assignment of sex to bees (a chance of 1 out of 2).

It did not. The Quran was wrong.
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I did a websearch. The sex of the bees in the Quran is correctly described, while human knowledge got it all wrong until only recently when it was discovered that working bees are females.

So the Quran was right by standing out and using the female verb form to describe some activities that are performed by bees. It could have used the male form (as was in the mind of people for all the time until 2003), but no it was the correct form (The femal form).

Quran is right again. It is correct on the most counter-intuitive and unknown facts for thousands of years.

1. Body of pharaoh preserved in the sea and found.
2. Working bees are females (opposite of what people thought for 1000s of years. It could only be determined via GENE research. A 21st century tech.
3. Correct descripton of fetus formation. It was known only after discovery of powerful microscopes of late 20th century tech.
4. Others like the above which I am researching.

Proof of the bees is below. Do a search on points 1. and 3 above. You will find the facts.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/09/0908_030908_beegene.html
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Quote from riskfreetrading:

I did a websearch. The sex of the bees in the Quran is correctly described, while human knowledge got it all wrong until only recently when it was discovered that working bees are females.

Where did all thee people get it wrong? In one person's writing? Where is all this human knowledge that was wrong? List all these historical wrong sources please (this is really sad)

So the Quran was right by standing out and using the female verb form to describe some activities that are performed by bees. It could have used the male form (as was in the mind of people for all the time until 2003), but no it was the correct form (The femal form).

Let us examine the verse this comes from:

016.068
YUSUFALI: And thy Lord taught the Bee to build its cells in hills, on trees, and in (men's) habitations;
PICKTHAL: And thy Lord inspired the bee, saying: Choose thou habitations in the hills and in the trees and in that which they thatch;
SHAKIR: And your Lord revealed to the bee saying: Make hives in the mountains and in the trees and in what they build:

The Qu'ran is not doing anything to say something about Bee gender. It has a general discussion about some activities of the bee, and does not pick these out in any special way. It does not clearly state anything special about female bees. In Spanish, "la ventana" is the word for window. La is femlae, but it means nothing. Nouns are usually male or femlae, nad it is pretty random.

But Muslims, in a desperate attempt to shine credence on a wobbly scripture-wannabe, are beyond grasping at straws. If this is the best the Qu'ran can do, then you should throw it away now!!! This is terribly pitiful. RFT, you are to be pitied.

1. Body of pharaoh preserved in the sea and found.

(Sorry, this never happened. Historically, there is no historical evidence any pharaoh drowned. The Pharaoh of this event was believed either to be Ramses II or Merneptah. They died of old age and both of their mummies have been found; definitely not in the Red Sea or any other body of water. The Qu'ran lifted the story from the Old Testament. The rest is absolute fantasy.

2. Working bees are females

(opposite of what people thought for 1000s of years.

(umm, would you mind showing where people thought otherwise for these 1000s of years? Citing some ancient literature?)

It could only be determined via GENE research. A 21st century tech.


3. Correct descripton of fetus formation. It was known only after discovery of powerful microscopes of late 20th century tech.

This is nauseating. I have a BS in biology and coursework in embryology, so let us look at your Qu'ran claims. To quote from an Islamic site:

Qur'an reveals about the formation and developmental phases of a fetus in the womb is striking: "O mankind! if you have a doubt about the Resurrection, [consider] that We created you out of dust

(stolen from Genesis. And when was the sperm and egg formed out of dust during fetal development? Only the original Adam was formed from dust.)

then out of sperm,

(um, left out the egg - sorry)

then out of a leech-like clot

(sorry, but it is NEVER a clot. It is a fertilized egg that undergoes massive cell division and differentiation to form into an embryo.)

then out of a lump of flesh

(this is striking? You think any mother (or others) having/seeing a miscarriage did not think of it as flesh?)

partly formed and partly unformed

(umm, which part of the embryo/fetus is unformed again? The cells? Tissue? Organs? Blood or interstital fluid? The truth is, it is ALL formed.

in order that We may manifest [what We will] to you."

(This is miraculous and forward-looking as trying to guess the # of beans in a jar.)

The above is my dealing with the ridiculous Islamic fetal claim. This is another site that lances the Islamic fetal claim:

http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/huxley/islamic_embyology.htm



4. Others like the above which I am researching.

Hope your research waddles out of children's fairy tales and beliefs and actually finds just ONE thing of credence.

Quran is right again. It is correct on the most counter-intuitive and unknown facts for thousands of years.

Most??? Right??? I am awaiting even one example. So far, the Qu'ran is batting .000
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Quote from TraderZones:


Let us examine the verse this comes from:

016.068
YUSUFALI: And thy Lord taught the Bee to build its cells in hills, on trees, and in (men's) habitations;
PICKTHAL: And thy Lord inspired the bee, saying: Choose thou habitations in the hills and in the trees and in that which they thatch;
SHAKIR: And your Lord revealed to the bee saying: Make hives in the mountains and in the trees and in what they build:

The Qu'ran is not doing anything to say something about Bee gender. It has a general discussion about some activities of the bee, and does not pick these out in any special way. It does not clearly state anything special about female bees. In Spanish, "la ventana" is the word for window. La is femlae, but it means nothing. Nouns are usually male or femlae, nad it is pretty random.

[/B]
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I read only the passage about bees in your post. I did not have time, and patience to read the rest as when I see someone playing games, my might does not accept to work on the rest.

Also, you do not read what I write. Check my previous posts about the verbs and gender in arabic.

In some language (arabic is one of them), the form the verb takes depends on the gender.

This does exist in English, so you have find the fact in an english translation but ask a person who knows arabic and that you trust, and he will confim it with you. In english if I say/wite "X says Y", I cannot determine the gender of X. In Arabic the gender of the X will be known, since the verb 'Say" will have suffix and/or prefix (I do not recall which is which) that have to go with the gender of X.

Arabic is one of the precise languages for such things. They have even two forms others other than singular( 2 and more than 2). It is in the same family as Aramaic, and Hebru. That is another reason why one cannot accurately translate sacred text, because a translation loses a lot of things such as implied gender, plurals, etc.

You cannot understand this because you have first to want to understand, and also the ability to understand. You have shown the ability of neither so far.

I was exchanging with you with respect, but given your behaviour, I may have to start using the language your understand ( I got sticks next to me, so do not force me to use them, as I prefer the language of dialogue).

I am not here to convince you and elseone else. I just write truths, so do not try to play games with the aim to distort facts.
 
Quote from riskfreetrading:

You do not read what I write.

In some language (arabic is one of them), the form the verb takes depends on the gender.

This does exist in English, so you have find the fact in an english translation but ask a person who knows arabic and that you trust, and he will confim it with you. In english if I say/wite "X says Y", I cannot determine the gender of X. In Arabic the gender of the X will be known, since the verb 'Say" will have suffix and/or prefix (I do not recall which is which) that have to go with the gender of X.

Arabic is one of the precise languages for such things. They have even two forms others other than singular( 2 and more than 2). It is in the same family as Aramaic, and Hebru. That is another reason why one cannot accurately translate sacred text, because a translation loses a lot of things such as implied gender, plurals, etc.

You cannot understand this because you have first to want to understand, and also the ability to understand. You have shown the ability of neither so far.

I was exchanging with you with respect, but given your behaviour, I may have to start using the language your understand ( I got sticks next to me, so do not force me to use them, as I prefer the language of dialogue).

I am not here to convince you and elseone else. I just write truths, so do not try to play games with the aim to distort facts.
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Let's go back to your statement to someone before:

(Quote from RiskFreeTrading)

No one has proposed examples (such the ones above) where the Quran is proven wrong. Remember you need to give ONLY ONE example to show that the Quran is wrong.

I gave a couple of hundred clear contradictions with the Qu'ran. First a link, and then copied everything in by hand.

Your response? Just give ONE example. Did you take math? 1-200+ contractions/errors is more than ONE.

I pretty much ground your "miraculous" foreknowledge into the dust. There is little about it of truth or value. And all you hang on, is semantic wordplay about Arabic and gender of bees? I know how to read. In fact, linguistics (AI) was part of my M.S. in Comp Sci.

The real and only fact here is, that evidence has little effect on you. When presented with a lot, you go into verbal circles, verbal parrying and dance around the evidences.

Go ahead, prove me wrong. I gave you a couple of hundred contradictions. I demolished your miracles.

It is YOUR job to defend your statements. You said ONE example would disprove. But 200+ examples do not?

You said the Qu'ran was mightily written and error-free. All you presented was your belief and a few pithy examples which were easily squashed (I was surprised at how feeble they were).

I addressed your miracles - they were easily dismissed above. Where was the Pharaoh in the sea? Where is your clotted fetus? Where is your lady bee, other than a distorted interpretation?

Are you going to defend your Qu'ran or is your belief just a mirage???

The idea of miraculous evidence is, that it must convince OTHERS, not just you
 
Quote from riskfreetrading:

I think I got what you are saying.

Truth never dies. Even if you crucify it, it resurrects (via contact with thinking minds, simply hybernate till the monent where it ressurects, etc). It rises again. May fall against, rises again, etc.

Similar to a stock: Mark up, stays flat, mark down.

Bankruptcy is the end of the stock.

Is there an equivalent event in case of life?
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True...truth never dies.
Truth has the attributes of a lamb.
It does not defend itself...does not attack.
"The universe" blocks out truth by mangling it beyond recognition.
For this reason it is said that the "Lamb of God" was...
"slain before the foundation of the world".
This means the world is an imposition upon the truth.
The world slaughters the truth.
The world is a place where truth is dead.
There is absolutely no truth in the world.
This is the truest thing that can be said about the world.
The trend has been that every time truth takes root in the world, it is mangled beyond recognition.
It is the thinking mind that makes the world that mangles the truth, mocks it, and makes a rediculous parody of it.
The thinking mind that makes the world is not how GoD thinks.
The thinking mind that makes the world is opposed to the way GoD thinks, being conceptually opposite.
The gospel of Jesus is effectually "dead" because it has been mangled beyond recognition.
It was dead on arrival within a generation...dying with the stoning of Stephen about twenty years after the resurrection.
Paul continued to *stone* the gospel, murdering any meaning that made it miraculous.

Radio preachers pick up where Paul left off, and stone it every hour of every day. I am just a "good samaritan" who sees the gospel laying on the side of the road, beaten up, mangled beyond recognition, robbed of its power, and chewed on by wolves in sheeps clothing.

Why is the gospel beaten up, twisted, torn, and pounded into submission to the thinking mind of men?

Because the gospel conceptually threatens the existence of everything the thinking mind holds dear: itself and its holographic fantasies. The gospel is antithetical to the existence of the world, just as the world is antithetical to the truth. So there is a kind of "enmity" that cannot be avoided. It's a converse relationship, like the sun and the moon. The world arises in the dark of confusion, sucking its blood from the truth. As the confusion dies, the clarity of the truth arises, and visa versa.

However, the trend is upward. The authentic gospel has popped back up out of the ground in recent years, and over the next 100 years, will spread faster than the false pop gospel spread in its first 300.

The gospel promises that *all* will be saved, even if it takes a million years. And all will be saved of their own choice. Time merely waits on the choice of all to be the One...as it was, is, and always shall be. When all have chosen, the thinking mind that makes the world will go bankrupt and cease to seem to be. It existed upon the belief of the self-exiled Son of God, and goes broke when the faith invested in it is withdrawn.

The trend is up and awareness is ascending. We are but 2000 years into what may be a million year process. All that is happening at this time is saving time...shortening the time it takes to gather together the conceptually dispersed Son of God, scattered to the four winds.

Stu may be the last. He may leave when there's no one to take the other side of his trades.

Christ!:D
 
"I am.."

Your interpretation of Jesus's message/similar is consistent with the Quran's statement that they did not kill him/it, but it only appeared to them that they did. (They did not kill the truth, it only appeared to them that they did).

You and the Quran have something in common.
 
Quote from riskfreetrading:

"I am.."

Your interpretation of Jesus's message/similar is consistent with the Quran's statement that they did not kill him/it, but it only appeared to them that they did. (They did not kill the truth, it only appeared to them that they did).

You and the Quran have something in common.
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Yes.
Jesus is a metaphor for the truth.
When Jesus talked, his words were a parable of the truth.
When Jesus walked, his actions were a parody of the truth.

The crucifixion was a parody of the genesis of the world.
The genesis of the world was the apparent death of the truth.
Guilt rules the world because it appears that the truth is dead.
We all feel guilty because, "we" were "there"...in the beginning.
We are all "made in the image" of the mind that believes it has killed the truth.

We are, collectively, the mind of "Adam".

It is the guilt driven mind of "Adam" that makes the holographic "apple" called "the universe".
We all think like that mind, and believe as it believes.
Adam, sleeping, believes in separation.
Believing in separation, we "eat" of the holographic apple, digesting the thoughts that make it up.
That mind survives as we continue to think like it and believe like it.

But,
Truth can't be killed.
So, we need not feel guilty.
This is true "repentance":
...to change our mind about how we have been thinking and believing since the beginning of time...to change which mind we think with:
A. The mind of Adam [self-concept]. Guilty.
B. The mind of Christ [Self]. Innocent.

It is only as we understand the crucifixion/resurrection/ascension parody that we are able to overcome the guilty feelings that build the world, drive the world, and drive it insane.
Understood correctly, guilt is a false concept because the genesis of the world is nOt true.
In other words, the genesis of the world is built on a false premise [think: foundation of sand].
However we think we have hurt or offended GoD is simply a figment of our imagination.
The result is a world built entirely of imagination upon a foundation of "sand" [think: separation, guilt, fear, misperception].

Guilt is an integral component in the construction of the universal holograph.
Time space and form are interconnected with guilt.
If the concept of guilt were removed, the holograph would completely collapse and vanish.
So, as guilt goes, the world will "pass away".

The only way guilt will be removed is as each one changes his mind about it...stops believing in it...stops eating [digesting] the holographic apple of guilt...*repents*.
As each one changes his belief about guilt, his experience in "the universe" comes to an end, and he "ascends" in the awareness of truth.
The truth is this: Innocence is universal, despite appearances.
"The universe" acts as a *false witness* against this truth.
So,
guilt appears to be justified within "the universe".
But actually, its not, because "the universe" is a false witness.
"The universe" is a set up. A trick. An appearance. An illusion. A hologram.
It's purpose is to justify the initial assumptions in the mind that makes it.
The mind that makes it believes the Son of God [Self] is guilty.
"The universe" *proves* it.

This is a key point.
One cannot have the experience of "the universe" and innocence at the same time.
Those who have cleared their minds of the concept of guilt cannot maintain a typical bodily presence in time/space/form.
A body will disappear when the concept of guilt is washed from one's mind.
This is how baptism works:
As the truth washes ones mind of the false concept of guilt, one's experience in the world comes to an end.

Conversely, if one wants to continue his experience in the world, he needs to maintain guilt as a valid concept.
The blame game works to this end ideally.
But what people don't understand is the correlation between the concept of guilt and the "reality" of the holograph called "the universe".
Believing in the reality of "the universe" also works to maintain guilt as a valid concept.

As I said, there is a correlation between guilt, time, form and space [distances].
These are all simultaneously present, or not at all.
Idolatry works to maintain one's experience in the world by maintaining:
A. Guilt as a valid concept, or,
B. "The universe" as "reality", rather than a belief.

Rather, "the universe" is an idol believed.
It needs belief to maintain the vital components of its apparent existence.
Guilt is a foundational component.
Truth pulls the rug out from under it.
Truth will succeed.
That is why it is said that the world will "pass away".

Christ!
 
Quote from I am...:

Stu may be the last. He may leave when there's no one to take the other side of his trades.
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Careful Iam - man, "..the first shall be last" ...and all that. Even the Jesus dude knew that
 
Quote from stu:

Careful Iam - man, "..the first shall be last" ...and all that. Even the Jesus dude knew that
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The Levitical priestood shall be last.
The Levity priestood shall be first.

Some of the things you say are hilarious.
Especially the baseball bat jokes.
Where do you come up with that crap?

So, yah, you may be right and be first.
That would be righteous!

"He gave the form of levity to that which ascended; to that which descended, the form of gravity." --Sir. W. Raleigh.


Christ!:D
 
Quote from riskfreetrading:

Physists cannot explain even GRAVITY!

Explain gravity first. How is the pulling done?

Physicts only describe, they cannot explain or build fundamental forces (gravity is one of them).

It has been 1500 years, people come to this world, bullshit, go back to the grave, and have never provide one single fact that contradicts the Quran.
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I am not a "physists", so I can explain gravity. :D

Gravity, guilt, and graves go together.

Guilt is a concept.
It is a fundamental concept, upon which is built "the universe".
It is a false concept.
It must be believed to be experienced.
So,
Guilt works by pulling on your leg, so-to-speak.
Likewise,
Gravity works by pulling on your leg.
In other words,
"The universe" is a joke which gives form ["reality"] to concepts [symbols].

Guilt, form, time and gravity are foundational concepts building the hologram so-called "the universe".
Form is the concept that one thing is separated from another by space [distance].
Time is the concept that perpetual change can compete with eternal changelessness.
These are jokes.
Gravity is the concept of seriousness.
Gravity takes form and time seriously, making them "real".

If "the universe" is real, then the truth is dead and death is the truth.
But,
If "the universe" is a joke, then the truth the truth.

If you take "the universe" seriously, gravity will pull you six feet under, so-to-speak.
If you can take a joke, levity will allow you to ascend, transcend, and "overcome" the world.

"The universe" is a self-concept.
It can't be taken seriously.

You are the truth.
The truth is reality.
"The universe" is the death of reality, and the life of unreality.
So,
If "the universe" is real, you're dead.

Everything in "the universe" is a symbol.
Temptation is the symbol of taking symbols curiously.
Drugs are the symbols of taking symbols deliriously.
Murder is the symbol of taking symbols furiously.
Gravity is the symbol of taking symbols seriously.
Levity is the symbol of taking symbols cheeriously.

Gravity grabs for graven images.
Graven images grasp the grave.

Levity lets the ludicrous go.
Levity lets the nothing-but-the-truth show.
What goes down, must go up.
So why don't you all just shut up!

Christ!

P.S. - Why can't you people keep "the universe" in your homes, churches, synagogues, mosques, magic circles and masonic lodges? :D
 
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