I've concluded its impossible to day trade index futures manually

[LondonUSTrader]

Quote from tradenstuff:

i never said "they" didnt exist, again. go back and READ.

i said, no one trading manually is. yes, there are firms making a fortune but guess what, they are not looking at charts pointing and clicking.

thats my entire point.

This assumes the strategies of successful traders rely exclusively on looking at charts. That's a big assumption, in my view.

Since the beginning of the stock markets, people have made money trading manually. Over hundreds of years not much has changed in that respect. Technology is vastly different and people often have the impression that only a quantitative approach will work, but that is simply not true. Trading is pretty much the same as it always has been. As Bernard Baruch, one of the great speculators of all time, observed many years ago:

“During my 87 years I have witnessed a whole succession of technological revolutions. But none of them has done away with the need for character in the individual, or the ability to think.”

I respectfully suggest that successful manual trading still, always has and always will require these two vital attributes. Without these, manual trading is indeed "impossible".

 

[gmst]

Quote from LondonUSTrader:

Trading is pretty much the same as it always has been. As Bernard Baruch, one of the great speculators of all time, observed many years ago:

“During my 87 years I have witnessed a whole succession of technological revolutions. But none of them has done away with the need for character in the individual, or the ability to think.”

+1
What an amazingly waste thread!

But a great post nevertheless!

 

[austinp]

Quote from Surprise:

austin your chart f@@ the whole page ...

Sorry about that... forgot to resize smaller before attaching. But then again, how badly could this whole thread get ruined regardless?

Trading is hard, it has always been hard and it will always be hard. Except for very brief blips of time when volatility is at extreme highs and massive price moves fly all around, there are very few actionable spots per session in any market.

The whole "bar-by-bar" concept is flawed: most of the time price movement is a coin toss as to what happens next. A few times per session on average you will have chances to trade similar setups that offer a distinct edge when lumped together for dozens of said similar trades combined.

Each and every lone trade is a coin toss outcome. Taking ten different, totally unrelated trade setups are ten individual coin tosses. Taking ten similar structured setups with a known bias outcome when lumped together is a defined edge.

Those factual points tend to elude most aspiring trader.

 

[oldtime]

the funny thing is

when the market hands you a large profit, you take it quickly because you know how it can turn on a dime

but when the market hands you a large loss you take it because you know how it can just keep going

 

[ammo]

Quote from tradenstuff:

i believe there are edges but they are razor thin and tiny. they can only be exploited by rigorous mathematical methods coupled with thorough coding and precise execution that is fully automated.

simply looking at charts and clicking the mouse is suicide imo. Every tick is new information that effects the edge and changes that probability. This HAS to processed by computer automation. the human brain simply can not deal with what is happening on the fly.

our brains have to adapt to trading and in the beginning ,it's usually adapt to losing, http://hubertsenters.com/5-stages-of-a-trader/

 

[oldtime]

the brain is a magnificent animal

more powerful than the recent computer they just invented

the one thing my powerful brain has told me is

whenever another man uses the word "Edge" he is probably a born loser

 

[Surprise]

Quote from oldtime:

the brain is a magnificent animal

more powerful than the recent computer they just invented

the one thing my powerful brain has told me is

whenever another man uses the word "Edge" he is probably a born loser

Locals at the pit who buy at the bid and sell at the ask that's an edge ...

 

[oldtime]

Quote from Surprise:

Locals at the pit who buy at the bid and sell at the ask that's an edge ...

no kidding, you use to be able to do that with es, sitting at your computer with an aol dial up in your pajamas

and from what I hear

nq was even better

those were the days my friend

we thought they'd never end

now you actually have to work for a living

might I suggest you take a look at forex?

They are still doing that over there

 

[Surprise]

Quote from oldtime:

no kidding, you use to be able to do that with es, sitting at your computer with an aol dial up in your pajamas

and from what I hear

nq was even better

those were the days my friend

we thought they'd never end

now you actually have to work for a living

might I suggest you take a look at forex?

They are still doing that over there

Just an example of what is considered as an edge ....

 

[oldtime]

Quote from Surprise:

Just an example of what is considered as an edge ....

well actually, when I was trading ES, I always took a 2 mile walk, and got fully dressed in business clothes before the market opened. Just so my wife at the time wouldn't think I had flipped out.

but yes, buy the bid, sell the ask

anything more is just gravy

get stuck with a couple of those overnight

and you become a position trader

and that is where the real money is made or lost