It's summertime, and you know what that means in the big cities. . .

[gwb-trading]

so, another conservative whose only talking point is "blacks against whites". You added zero value with pointing fingers.

Yes, we are very aware that you believe the riots are merely a symptom of the underlying gross "social injustice".

Just like to the looting, burning, and violence by the brown shirts in Germany in the late 1930s were just a symptom of the underlying social injustice. From your perspective, riots are never incited by political leaders seeking to drive their own agendas.

 

[volpunter]

and nothing has changed in 85 years?

And yes, you can trace anti-semitism back thousands of years. The origin of the anti-semitism in Western Europe in the 19th and later 20th century can be found in the gross abuse of Jewish financiers as they cornered the market and via loans and banking operations squeezed corporate entities but also to large degree influenced the retail market. This is, by the way not a phenomenon that only touched Germany but most European capitals and financial centers. But I am not sure why we have to dig >85 years deep (though I have no problem with that, I stand by my country's mistakes and horrific past). Neither am I sure a digression into the Westwards move and almost complete annihilation of native Indians adds much value to analyze America's problems today.

Yes, we are very aware that you believe the riots are merely a symptom of the underlying gross "social injustice".

Just like to the looting, burning, and violence by the brown shirts in Germany in the late 1930s were just a symptom of the underlying social injustice. From your perspective, riots are never incited by political leaders seeking to drive their own agendas.

 

[gwb-trading]

I think countries like German show right now that you can run a top notch economy and country while providing broad social benefits and a social welfare system to those who lost out due to unfortunate circumstances. Your Turkish immigrant point makes zero sense. Germany welcomed and integrated millions of Turkish immigrants, they make up around 10% of the total population in Germany. Total unemployment in Germany stands around 5%, so, given that there are non-Turkish immigrant and refugee groups that find it much harder to integrate and find employment I would say the Turkish community does fantastically well in Germany. Hardly a single soul left and ever returned to Turkey. But back to the point:

You can have a society that innovates, produces at high productivity levels, with a trustworthy and reliable fiscal policy, people who spend but also have plenty to save, free education, relatively low levels of violence (murders, killings are extremely rare compared to the US, and Nazi demonstrations are blown out of proportion by foreign media (especially American media, which are entirely Jewish controlled [I challenge you to name a single major national publication, tv, newspaper, media, that is not majority controlled by Jews], and leave no opportunity to knock down Germany's reputation). And above all, Germany also has ultra high networth individuals but they do not show off and run around bragging but nor do they have to hide behind fences for fear of jealousy or retribution. The huge majority of society is incredibly balanced in terms of living standard and wealth. Germany has tackled major issues over the past decades. Drug abuse and related crimes are at all time lows thanks to a drug policy that supports the demand side of the equation. Education is pretty good and entirely free. Ecologically hardly any other country in the world can keep pace with the progress in Germany. The amount of energy generated from alternative sources is simply staggering. Germans are pretty well educated, no school type comes to mind that would even have to compete with the American type of community college, I think it is safe to say that even middle-high school level math in Germany lies on a higher level than the one taught at American community colleges.

The problem in the US is not a problem with Blacks, illegal immigration. The single biggest threat to the US imho is a gross imbalance in wealth distribution and even more important a gross imbalance in opportunities depending into which family you are born. There are other big items on the to-do list such as educating the average American to higher standards (US students on average are trailing most every European or Asian country), its ridiculous war on drugs, its war(s) on terror (chuckle), gun control, campaign financing reform, and an overdue rethink why an American CEO on average earns around 330 more than an average worker and why certain races in society constantly enjoy preferential treatment while their average IQ is not any higher than other races and while their work ethic nor skill level is any higher than the one of others. Those are the questions that the US needs to really busy itself with. Oh did I forget Russia and China?

Wow... despite the well-documented record of the abuse of Turks in Germany, we have a German defending their treatment of Turkish immigrants. Unbelievable.

It reminds me of the time I spent in Germany right after the wall came down, the common humor was - They would give an East German 100 deutsche marks “welcoming money” when he crossed the border, 200 deutsche marks if he went back, and 5000 deutsche marks if he took a Turkish man with him.

This is reflective of the German attitude towards the immigrant Turks.

 

[volpunter]

No, sorry, you must have dreamed it up or were made fun of. If Turkish immigrants had a hard time in Germany or did not like it they could have gone back to Turkey at any time. Only a tiny minority group of Turkish immigrants are refugees and might have a harder time going back to Turkey. So far I have not heard of more than a few who disliked their new home. But if anyone feels abused, badly treated, too poor or otherwise is displeased with Germany or Germans' attitudes then they can of course leave, the number of immigrants, percentage wise is the highest in Germany among European nations so there is not a whole lot more room. (On the other hand the cases of social welfare abuse particularly by immigrants in Germany is percentage wise so high that it causes reason to worry and laws and surveillance had to be tightened.

Wow... despite the well-documented record of the abuse of Turks in Germany, we have a German defending their treatment of Turkish immigrants. Unbelievable.

It reminds me of the time I spent in Germany right after the wall came down, the common humor was - They would give an East German 100 deutsche marks “welcoming money” when he crossed the border, 200 deutsche marks if he went back, and 5000 deutsche marks if he took a Turkish man with him.

This is reflective of the German attitude towards the immigrant Turks.

 

[gwb-trading]

No, sorry, you must have dreamed it up or were made fun of. If Turkish immigrants had a hard time in Germany or did not like it they could have gone back to Turkey at any time. Only a tiny minority group of Turkish immigrants are refugees and might have a harder time going back to Turkey. So far I have not heard of more than a few who disliked their new home. But if anyone feels abused, badly treated, too poor or otherwise is displeased with Germany or Germans' attitudes then they can of course leave, the number of immigrants, percentage wise is the highest in Germany among European nations so there is not a whole lot more room. (On the other hand the cases of social welfare abuse particularly by immigrants in Germany is percentage wise so high that it causes reason to worry and laws and surveillance had to be tightened.

Page 1 of Google search results stands in compelling difference...

Essay on Racism: Growing Up Turkish in Germany
http://www.spiegel.de/international...m-growing-up-turkish-in-germany-a-932154.html

Turkish Immigration to Germany: A Sorry History of Self-Deception and Wasted Opportunities
http://www.spiegel.de/international...eption-and-wasted-opportunities-a-716067.html

Identity dilemma pushes young Turks to leave Germany for Turkey
http://www.todayszaman.com/anasayfa...turks-to-leave-germany-for-turkey_369997.html

Pegida's anti-Islam rallies stir fears of German Turks
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30742898

Despite numerous German government reports stating there is a problem - you deny the obvious.

 

[volpunter]

Some of the articles are written by Turks, you find that objective reporting?
Further, may I quote:

"Many Turks repeatedly delayed returning home. The economic and political situation was uncertain in Turkey, a country plagued by a series of military coups. Still, almost all of the workers assumed that they would eventually leave Germany and return to their families, says Tipi. "Some of our friends kept their packed suitcases under the bed or on top of a closet for 10 or 15 years, so that they could leave at a moment's notice." Many Turks worked in factories that employed interpreters, making learning German seem unnecessary."

-> a) So, it was nice an cosy in Germany, the nice paychecks kept on coming, job stability, no political persecution, despite their bickering and complaints they stayed, correct? b) Neither Turks, nor Greeks, Italians and other GUESTworkers dreamed of the ability to stay or live in Germany. That was actually never the plan. The idea was to invite guest workers. It was Germany's decision to grant guest workers a long term residence permit and the ability to start a new life in Germany.

Your articles are all they are, ink on paper, opinion pieces.

However, statistics completely contradict your thoughts and cited articles. Hardly any Turkish immigrants return to their home country. Guess why? Because Germany is a very comfortable place to live and work. Unfortunately there is a seizable percentage of immigrants who either abuse the social welfare protection and violate laws by trafficking women, drugs, and other contraband. The percentage of non German citizens among arrested drug dealers, large and small, is staggering. Yet, most Germans are incredibly tolerant to the different cultural habits, the noises from nearby Mosques, the many family infightings and similar issues.

I would say, it all depends what you define as "problem". A few grumpy Turks that feel homesick or burning cities in the US and crazy people with handguns set free on society ;-)

And let's see whether the handful that indeed return to Turkey will enjoy a living standard as they proudly show off in Germany: Benz in the lot, nice house, baby carts, clean and proper clothing. Let's see how long that Benz sits at their lot in Turkey before it either gets scratched, its windshields smashed, the engine stolen, or the entire car gone. Do not let the door hit you on the way out.

Page 1 of Google search results stands in compelling difference...

Essay on Racism: Growing Up Turkish in Germany
http://www.spiegel.de/international...m-growing-up-turkish-in-germany-a-932154.html

Turkish Immigration to Germany: A Sorry History of Self-Deception and Wasted Opportunities
http://www.spiegel.de/international...eption-and-wasted-opportunities-a-716067.html

Identity dilemma pushes young Turks to leave Germany for Turkey
http://www.todayszaman.com/anasayfa...turks-to-leave-germany-for-turkey_369997.html

Pegida's anti-Islam rallies stir fears of German Turks
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30742898

Despite numerous German government reports stating there is a problem - you deny the obvious.

 

[gwb-trading]

Some of the articles are written by Turks, you find that objective reporting?
Further, may I quote:

"Many Turks repeatedly delayed returning home. The economic and political situation was uncertain in Turkey, a country plagued by a series of military coups. Still, almost all of the workers assumed that they would eventually leave Germany and return to their families, says Tipi. "Some of our friends kept their packed suitcases under the bed or on top of a closet for 10 or 15 years, so that they could leave at a moment's notice." Many Turks worked in factories that employed interpreters, making learning German seem unnecessary."

-> a) So, it was nice an cosy in Germany, the nice paychecks kept on coming, job stability, no political persecution, despite their bickering and complaints they stayed, correct? b) Neither Turks, nor Greeks, Italians and other GUESTworkers dreamed of the ability to stay or live in Germany. That was actually never the plan. The idea was to invite guest workers. It was Germany's decision to grant guest workers a long term residence permit and the ability to start a new life in Germany.

Your articles are all they are, ink on paper, opinion pieces.

However, statistics completely contradict your thoughts and cited articles. Hardly any Turkish immigrants return to their home country. Guess why? Because Germany is a very comfortable place to live and work. Unfortunately there is a seizable percentage of immigrants who either abuse the social welfare protection and violate laws by trafficking women, drugs, and other contraband. The percentage of non German citizens among arrested drug dealers, large and small, is staggering. Yet, most Germans are incredibly tolerant to the different cultural habits, the noises from nearby Mosques, the many family infightings and similar issues.

I would say, it all depends what you define as "problem". A few grumpy Turks that feel homesick or burning cities in the US and crazy people with handguns set free on society ;-)

And let's see whether the handful that indeed return to Turkey will enjoy a living standard as they proudly show off in Germany: Benz in the lot, nice house, baby carts, clean and proper clothing. Let's see how long that Benz sits at their lot in Turkey before it either gets scratched, its windshields smashed, the engine stolen, or the entire car gone. Do not let the door hit you on the way out.

So according to you unless the Turks are looting and burning cities then there is no underlying social justice issue.

I guess the Turks in Germany need their own "Al Sharpton" to tell them the path to justice is rioting and violence. "No justice, no peace."

 

[volpunter]

...correct, no BURNING issues so far. No problems? I never stated that. Anywhere you mix races you will get a bit of unrest and issues. But by any comparison Germany is an extremely peaceful country with tight gun control and most people solve problems without killing each other.

Most Turkish immigrants are very happy in Germany, of course the handful of those who expected two or three times fatter welfare checks for sick Asil and Aslan are such exception that they feel the need to self-report.

Can we move back to the thread topic now? You could else apply for a little "on the job training" in Germany and experience first hand how your Turkish neighbors are doing. After all your ancestry is German and Americans are very curious about their lineage and ancestor trees.

So according to you unless the Turks are looting and burning cities then there is no underlying social justice issue.

I guess the Turks in Germany need their own "Al Sharpton" to tell them the path to justice is rioting and violence. "No justice, no peace."

 

[gwb-trading]

...correct, no BURNING issues so far. No problems? I never stated that. Anywhere you mix races you will get a bit of unrest and issues. But by any comparison Germany is an extremely peaceful country with tight gun control and most people solve problems without killing each other.

Most Turkish immigrants are very happy in Germany, of course the handful of those who expected two or three times fatter welfare checks for sick Asil and Aslan are such exception that they feel the need to self-report.

Can we move back to the thread topic now? You could else apply for a little "on the job training" in Germany and experience first hand how your Turkish neighbors are doing. After all your ancestry is German and Americans are very curious about their lineage and ancestor trees.

So all the Turks in Germany need to kick off a BURNING issue is a political leader to incite the violence to drive their own political agenda and fund raising efforts.

Sounds like you have the exact same complaints about Turks abusing the welfare system in Germany that we have about blacks abusing the welfare system in the U.S. - so effectively the problems are equivalent. This is a personal responsibility issue not a "social justice" issue in both countries.

 

[volpunter]

Lol, if the problems were equivalent then you would see bullets flying in Germany, looting going on, robbing, stabbing, rapes, drug addicts at every corner, food stamp recipients lining up, inner cities inaccessible at night time, break ins. No, I do not think the problems are even remotely equivalent. And you know what I like the best? No fucking tips, and nobody who loiters, begs, and pesters people at every corner, in every front of every restaurant, except a few gypsies here and there. Guess the needy are after all pretty well taken care of in Germany.

By the way, the number of white welfare recipients in the US is about the same as black welfare recipients. http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

I am done on this topic.

So all the Turks in Germany need to kick off a BURNING issue is a political leader to incite the violence to drive their own political agenda and fund raising efforts.

Sounds like you have the exact same complaints about Turks abusing the welfare system in Germany that we have about blacks abusing the welfare system in the U.S. - so effectively the problems are equivalent. This is a personal responsibility issue not a "social justice" issue in both countries.