I have to admit that your post was quite confusing. So if I do what jesus says, but nothing else (such as having faith in God), will I get it? Vhehn seems to say yes but I'm not sure what you answer was.
It's settled: Hell is real.
- Thread starter Turok
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I have to admit that your post was quite confusing. So if I do what jesus says, but nothing else (such as having faith in God), will I get it? Vhehn seems to say yes but I'm not sure what you answer was.
Vhehn seems to be playing a game. Does it really matter if he was responding to a question or if he chose to teach the information without a question?
If you wish to know how to obtain eternal life according to jesus - read what he has to say.
I am trading so when i did the summary a few pages ago it was not great writing.
Once when questioned by the Prince - Jesus gave an answer.
He also answered a lawyer when asked a similar question.
he also told people to eat his flesh and drink his blood and he will be in them, be raised on the last day and have eternal life.
he also said search the scriptures regarding eternal life and you will find it in the ones that mention him. (that is how I read it)
The gospels also mention a few other ways.
I have no problem with the method vhehn suggests. It is just very difficlut. just know that I am not perfect. And Vhehn must be joking if he thinks that keeping the commandments perfectly would be the only way to heaven.
If it were the only way there would be no need for Jesus. You would just have to be a pefect follower of the commandments.
If you wish to know how to obtain eternal life according to jesus - read what he has to say.
I am trading so when i did the summary a few pages ago it was not great writing.
Once when questioned by the Prince - Jesus gave an answer.
He also answered a lawyer when asked a similar question.
he also told people to eat his flesh and drink his blood and he will be in them, be raised on the last day and have eternal life.
he also said search the scriptures regarding eternal life and you will find it in the ones that mention him. (that is how I read it)
The gospels also mention a few other ways.
I have no problem with the method vhehn suggests. It is just very difficlut. just know that I am not perfect. And Vhehn must be joking if he thinks that keeping the commandments perfectly would be the only way to heaven.
If it were the only way there would be no need for Jesus. You would just have to be a pefect follower of the commandments.
So if you refuse to follow a direct command from God will he allow you in his heaven?
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
My sayings were changed to suit the purposes of the writers, editors. Why is this so difficult to believe?
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1403942#post1403942
Just as an example, why would I tell the young man to obey all the other commandments, when I had already said that the entire law hangs on but two commandments: Love God with all your heart and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself?
Do you not suppose there was an editor who was interested in making me an extension of Jewish belief systems? Long after my resurrection, they were still quibbling about circumcision. What does that tell you? And these were the one's writing the Bible?
I did tell the man to sell everything and follow me, though. But as with most things I said, the meaning is on a deeper level.
Simply put: Salvation is for the mind. That is the only thing that can be saved, and peace is the only way to save it.
Mind will never be saved by confusion. When one invests faith in earthly things, he will be confused. So I said to "sell" that faith. Only then will one have anything to give to the poor. The "poor" are those who still invest their faith in earthly things!
Now I say, sell your Bible's if they cause you to think seriously insane notions. Pluck the corrupted verses out of your eye...those that equate salvation with earthly things.
As it stands, the Bible is not able to bring peace to the mind in a way to save it. Reason and common sense must guide you.
Vhehn, you are an example of reason and common sense. But it wouldn't hurt to have one more garage sale.
Jesus
Vhehn.
You are mixing and matching covenants.
Under the old Covenant - and if I were an Israelite - If God told me to go wipe out a town - I would have.
He might have chosen to intervene the way he did when he stopped Abraham for sacrificing his only son. And I suppose if God told me to do something now I still should. But....
I do not think God is talking directly to anyone under the new covenant.
You are mixing and matching covenants.
Under the old Covenant - and if I were an Israelite - If God told me to go wipe out a town - I would have.
He might have chosen to intervene the way he did when he stopped Abraham for sacrificing his only son. And I suppose if God told me to do something now I still should. But....
I do not think God is talking directly to anyone under the new covenant.
Quote from I am...:
My sayings were changed to suit the purposes of the writers, editors. Why is this so difficult to believe?
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1403942#post1403942
Just as an example, why would I tell the young man to obey all the other commandments, when I had already said that the entire law hangs on but two commandments: Love God with all your heart and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself?
Do you not suppose there was an editor who was interested in making me an extension of Jewish belief systems? Long after my resurrection, they were still quibbling about circumcision. What does that tell you? And these were the one's writing the Bible?
I did tell the man to sell everything and follow me, though. But as with most things I said, the meaning is on a deeper level.
Simply put: Salvation is for the mind. That is the only thing that can be saved, and peace is the only way to save it.
Mind will never be saved by confusion. When one invests faith in earthly things, he will be confused. So I said to "sell" that faith. Only then will one have anything to give to the poor. The "poor" are those who still invest their faith in earthly things!
Now I say, sell your Bible's if they cause you to think seriously insane notions. Pluck the corrupted verses out of your eye...those that equate salvation with earthly things.
As it stands, the Bible is not able to bring peace to the mind in a way to save it. Reason and common sense must guide you.
Vhehn, you are an example of reason and common sense. But it wouldn't hurt to have one more garage sale.
Jesus
You seem to have missed the point of why jesus responded to the lawyer and the prince the way he did.
they approached him. They said hey if we are perfect jews ( keep the commandments pefectly or even act in accordance with the point of the law) dont we inherit eternal life.
Answer yes -- if you are perfect you are justified under the law.
The question then becomes - what if I am not perfect?
Suppose someone walks into a psychiatrists office and says: "What must I do to save my mind?"
The doctor's recommendations may vary, depending on the condition of the patients mind. Nevertheless, the doctor is going to operate based on basic principles he believes will work in most cases.
I was a mobile doctor of psychology, and my "office" was all northern Palestine, with branch offices in Jerusalem.
I have identified the root causes of all mental problems. My recommendations are sometimes challenging to understand, because the root cause is not obvious to my patients. If it was, they would not be patients, would they?
The problem and solution I have identified both compare and differ from every other thought system. Until all thought systems compare to mine, there will not be salvation for the whole.
Meanwhile, individuals are picking up on it, little by little. But it takes practice, and mental training. This is the "doing" of salvation. However, you need "do" nothing. For "doing" is of the body. The body represents a divided loyalty. Therefore, salvation depends on doing nothing, while turning the faith you already have in nothing...toward something: the truth.
The problem: Ideas about separation, guilt
Solution: Correction of ideas about separation and guilt.
The problem: Misidentification of Self via ideas about separation and guilt.
The solution: Reidentification of Self with the truth: You are the Son of God, not separated, not guilty.
If you can accept this final solution, you have accepted the "Atonement".
Jesus
The doctor's recommendations may vary, depending on the condition of the patients mind. Nevertheless, the doctor is going to operate based on basic principles he believes will work in most cases.
I was a mobile doctor of psychology, and my "office" was all northern Palestine, with branch offices in Jerusalem.
I have identified the root causes of all mental problems. My recommendations are sometimes challenging to understand, because the root cause is not obvious to my patients. If it was, they would not be patients, would they?
The problem and solution I have identified both compare and differ from every other thought system. Until all thought systems compare to mine, there will not be salvation for the whole.
Meanwhile, individuals are picking up on it, little by little. But it takes practice, and mental training. This is the "doing" of salvation. However, you need "do" nothing. For "doing" is of the body. The body represents a divided loyalty. Therefore, salvation depends on doing nothing, while turning the faith you already have in nothing...toward something: the truth.
The problem: Ideas about separation, guilt
Solution: Correction of ideas about separation and guilt.
The problem: Misidentification of Self via ideas about separation and guilt.
The solution: Reidentification of Self with the truth: You are the Son of God, not separated, not guilty.
If you can accept this final solution, you have accepted the "Atonement".
Jesus
reasonable guess - just not in accord with your God's teaching in the bible.
Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son on Mount Moriah.
God did sacrifice the perfect sacrifice for us - According to some the mount where Jesus was scrifice is the same mount where Abraham was willing to make his.
Then you are mixing and matching. Love does not make agreements or bargains. That is why there is no sacrifice in my thought system. There are no "purchases" to be made. God gives all to all for free.
Sacrificing, buying and selling...these are all very strange things in Heaven. They are not needed to "get" to Heaven, for Heaven is not "gotten".
Heaven is your original state of being. Not only did I come "down" from Heaven, I am Heaven. And because you are one with me, and I with you, you are Heaven also.
So you are perfect.
The "problem" is that you think you are hell's angels. You think you are not perfect. That's the problem! Consequently, you act goofy...insanely...viciously. What else can you act like if you refuse to accept your original state of perfection? Aha...here are the seeds of strange thoughts and deeds.
You are co-creators with God in Heaven. When you have the power of the Son of God in Heaven, you must be very careful what you think about yourself. Think incorrectly, and you can "make" entire worlds, whole universes in an instant. Such is your predicament. You've painted yourself into a corner.
How is this world not a picture of a "prodigal" Son of God?!!
Jesus