Iterative Refinement

[Spydertrader]

Quote from romanus:

I am totally lost here.

Stop getting ahead of yourself ....

This is what you said here ...

Quote from romanus:

11:40 [close of] when first increasing black volume appears which is not one of the three cases.

When asked for examples of these three cases, you responded thusly, and provided a link ...

Quote from romanus:

the 'three times' one can 'see' increasing volume when Price moves in a non-dominant direction (Right trend line Break, Formation BO / FBO or 'Spike' Bar)

You have now posted this chart ......

<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2104236>

Still confused?

- Spydertrader

 

[Neoxx]

Didn't have much luck finding a visual of a log, but instead found a detailed post by Jack.

Amended the template, given that start-of-bar price and formations columns seemed to be dominated by short-lived pennants.

<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2104242>

 

[romanus]

Quote from Spydertrader:



You have now posted this chart ......

<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2104236>

Still confused?

The words “Formation BO” are highlighted in red. The only bar that meets that definition is 11:20 [close of] that breaks the formation boundary on increasing red volume. This suggests that red is non-dominant at that point in time since there was no change in dominance. It looks to me that there’s no change in dominance (red becomes dominant) until the Outside Bar 11:45 [close of] on increasing red volume?

Quote from Spydertrader:


Still confused?

Extremely confused.
Your chart has a green arrow with words "reverse short" pointing to 11:15 [close of] Bar. Which would mean there's a permission to seek change at that point.
However, if these are intra-fractal traverses, as in case with traverses within the lateral, then with finer tools the permissions do not apply.

 

[Spydertrader]

Quote from romanus:

The words “Formation BO” are highlighted in red. The only bar that meets that definition is 11:20 [close of] that breaks the formation boundary on increasing red volume.

Doesn't the bar to which you have directed the red arrow (11:40) break out on increasing black Volume? And as such, does that not meet the definition of a BO / FBO of a formation as pointed out by the Highlighted Red Words?

<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2104236>

In other words, you posted three examples of when one can 'see' non-dominant movement on increasing Volume, then proceded to indicate that one of these examples doesn't exist in the 11:40 bar.

Does the 11:40 bar break a formation on increasing volume or not?

Does a Break of a formation on increasing volume represent an example of when one might see increasing volume during non-dominant Price movement or not?

Now, does your original assertion with respect to the 11:40 make sense?

Quote from romanus:

That caused me to believe that the sequence for an up traverse was not completed until 11:40 [close of] when first increasing black volume appears which is not one of the three cases.

- Spydertrader

 

[Spydertrader]

<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2104329>

 

[treeline]

Quote from romanus:

Extremely confused

If I understand romanus correctly, you don't see where the morning up Traverse is confirmed by more increasing Volume after 10:55 EST BOs the LM on IBV. The way I viewed it, 11:05 EST provides confirmation of the P3 up Traverse. Yes, it's a Spike Bar, but up is already dominant at this point. I don't recall Spydertrader saying that all Spike Bars on increasing Volume are to be considered as non-dominant movement. I do recall him saying that we can see increasing Volume if a Spike Bar occurs during a non-dominant Point 2 to 3 retrace. But in this case, the market has already created what we might call a "provisional" Point 3, which only needs to be confirmed by more IBV. The 11:05 bar provides more IBV which doesn't come from a Lateral BO or FBO.

Hopefully Spydertrader or someone else will correct me if I'm leading you astray.

 

[romanus]

Quote from Spydertrader:

Doesn't the bar to which you have directed the red arrow (11:40) break out on increasing black Volume? And as such, does that not meet the definition of a BO / FBO of a formation as pointed out by the Highlighted Red Words?

Yes, the 11:40 [close of] Bar does break out on increasing black Volume.

I did not think (past tense) it meets the definition of a BO/FBO of a formation because that bar breaks out of Lateral Movement, which I thought to be different from Lateral Formation. That series of bars is also annotated on your chart as a Lateral Movement.
I thought that Lateral Movement is treated different from Lateral Formation for these purposes. Seems that I thought wrong.

Quote from Spydertrader:



Now, does your original assertion that the 11:40 make sense?

I don't think so anymore.

It seems that I may have missed and/or misinterpreted key components of the logic that goes into determining when the sequence is completed as it applies to how dominance is determined. This caused confusion, which spilled over to the thread.

Thank you for taking the time to respond and apologies for creating unnecessary confusion.

It seems more work is required on my part to figure the sequences part of the puzzle.

Any comments or drills would be extremely appreciated as they helped me tremendously in the past.

 

[ehorn]

Nice trades Spyder,

I was enticed into the Peak Volume signal Long (your area labelled "No Trades this fractal") but managed to get back on the right side when we closed below the RTL (Blue) in IRV. Thanks for sharing your chart and calls today.

Incredible week!

 

[guavaman]

Quote from ehorn:

Nice trades Spyder,

I was enticed into the Peak Volume signal Long (your area labelled "No Trades this fractal")

FWIW I saw the 14:25 and :30 bars as representing Pace Acceleration.

 

[ehorn]

Quote from guavaman:

FWIW I saw the 14:25 and :30 bars as representing Pace Acceleration.

I suppose you would have been correct on that fractal

I was observing a large lateral formation on a 60 minute chart which looked like it was holding (FBO around the 1116 area) and that along with what I presumed as a sequence completion was what I construed as sufficiency to take the signal. No harm done though as the market gave sufficient time (and information) as to its intention.

EDIT: Debrief says that in fact we required another traverse to complete the sequence. But when you have 40+ points of movement staring at you something takes over (I think they call it greed)