Iterative Refinement

[romanus]

Quote from treeline:

If I understand romanus correctly, you don't see where the morning up Traverse is confirmed by more increasing Volume after 10:55 EST BOs the LM on IBV. The way I viewed it, 11:05 EST provides confirmation of the P3 up Traverse. Yes, it's a Spike Bar, but up is already dominant at this point. I don't recall Spydertrader saying that all Spike Bars on increasing Volume are to be considered as non-dominant movement. I do recall him saying that we can see increasing Volume if a Spike Bar occurs during a non-dominant Point 2 to 3 retrace. But in this case, the market has already created what we might call a "provisional" Point 3, which only needs to be confirmed by more IBV. The 11:05 bar provides more IBV which doesn't come from a Lateral BO or FBO.

Hopefully Spydertrader or someone else will correct me if I'm leading you astray.

I think you are correct. I was attempting to compare apples to auto parts by failing to differentiate between Dominant and Non-Dominant Price Movement.
This morning was a text-book Lateral BO causing Pace Acceleration, after which one expects market to move laterally in an effort to create an Accelerated Traverse.

As I noted earlier more practice required on my part to see these things immediately as they unfold and not after it's over.

EDIT:
If one were to annotate that first Lateral of the day as I did, the market creates pt3 and then closes back inside lateral. Dominant black moving laterally can be found in pt1 to pt2 movements.

Spydertrader also mentioned that "what lateral provided for me, he saw elsewhere". It may be the increasing red bars prior to the 10:15 [close of] bar (pt3) which are found when price moves towards pt1 of the future up channel.

Damn, every bar tells the story. This is like learning a new language.

 

[bi9foot]

Spyder,

In the attached snip you posted No Trades in this fractal.

Is it because we did not get a traverse signal for change at 14:35 after completing sequence. (5 mins bars only)

<img src="http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2104591">

 

[bi9foot]

Just a follow up to my post above to explain my thought process during that period of time.

After 14:35 was done I anticipated a lateral traverse followed by a down traverse to give us a down channel. Once the next two bars closed, I was pretty confident of the lateral traverse.

However the 14:50 increasing red bar failing to exit the lateral changes the mode to long and the next bar closes outside the lateral (decreasing black vol) and thought the dominance has switched to up. So instead of a lateral traverse I assumed we are going to get an up traverse followed by a down to build the channel.

Hence my interest in knowing how one knows to stay short through this area.

 

[TIKITRADER]

Daily ES Chart October 3 2008

 

[ehorn]

Quote from Neoxx:

First attempt at realtime logging today. Is this the sort of thing people are using?...

<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2103343>

Jack has shared an elaborate template here.

I have attached the template I created some time back and used to train my mind to create a routine to sweep for certain things.

hth

 

[bi9foot]

Meant to do this earlier however I forgot about it until I was reviewing the journal this evening.

I posted the following posts thinking bar volatility changes the outcome of the jokari window. Spydertrader later mentioned volatility has nothing to do with it.

So please disregrad the posts and appologies for any confusion I may have caused.

Quote from bi9foot:

Context being discussed is a decreased volume bar with increased volatility occurring after an increasing volume bar.

David I believe you trying to solve the wrong problem.

Quote from Spydertrader:

Volatility had nothing to do with these instructions.

 

[Neoxx]

Quote from ehorn:

Jack has shared an elaborate template here.

I have attached the template I created some time back and used to train my mind to create a routine to sweep for certain things.

hth

Thanks for the link and attachment, ehorn.

Much appreciated.

 

[Spydertrader]

Quote from romanus:

I thought that Lateral Movement is treated different from Lateral Formation for these purposes. Seems that I thought wrong.

Some time ago now, I posted several examples of Laterals. Note how each 'type' of Lateral moves in a non-dominant fashion. When I posted the examples, I wanted everyone to start to learn to 'see' how the market signals the trader to anticipate left to right movement as the future moves into the now. Only two possibilities exist when the market provides such a signal. However, which possibility arrives (as the future moves into the now) doesn't matter because both possibilities result in the same action - hold.

Your current 'view' of the market as transitioning from increasing to decreasing to increasing again (in terms of Volume) doesn't provide the most accurate interpretation. Instead, monitor from the standpoint of dominant to non-dominant and back to dominant again.

Use the Gaussians as an 'indicator' of dominance in order to have them 'match' the trend lines. On many of my charts, the non-dominant portion of the Gaussians do not have the same color as the Volume bars tracked. In other words, the Gaussian lines track dominant vs non-dominant Price Movement, rather than Volume bar coloration. The subtle difference often sits where one finds the market 'mode'.

HTH.

- Spydertrader

 

[Spydertrader]

Quote from bi9foot:

Is it because we did not get a traverse signal for change at 14:35 after completing sequence. (5 mins bars only)

Correct. The 14:35 ES [close of] ES Bar does provide a signal for change - just not one we use on the ES five minute Traverse Level. In addition, we see another signal for change that we do use on this resolution level (a few bars later at 14:50), but the signal develops within a Lateral. Since we do not trade within Laterals without the use of (at least) medium level tools. This signal does not apply.

HTH.

- Spydertrader

 

[Spydertrader]

Quote from jack hershey:

This is a chart of bars 3, 4, ,5 and 6. As the annotations suggest, the Hold has been running since the entry and at the end of bar 6 it has been about 25 minutes.

<img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2105318>