What would you propose?
Isreal has declared open war with Lebanon :D
- Thread starter mahram
- Start date
What would you propose?
It's all about capabilities. They don't have the capability to drive Israel into the sea. So, we don't have to worry about that one do we?
Oh I see, so you don't want proportional response any more, somehow it has something to do with capabilities now. Based on your logic if someone wants so kill you and you have a better gun you should not use it and should not kill the scumbag attacking you...because your gun is better. Sorry but that BS.
If someone attacked me with a knife and I killed him and 30 innocent bystanders
If someone attacked you with a knife and you had a gun you'd kill him and that would be the end of it. If on the other side someone is attacking you from behind the backs of innocent bystanders, hiding among them and using them as a human shield, if those "innocent bystanders" do their best to hide and assist the attacker, they are not helping you, they are not turning him in, they are not cracking down on him and instead are cheering him on and electing him to the parlament - then any actions you take are absolutely justified.
"then any actions you take are absolutely justified."
Absolute self justification, prisons are full of people who thought themselves absolutely justified...
Absolute self justification, prisons are full of people who thought themselves absolutely justified...
Israel (Barak/Clinton) offers peace and 2 state solution, Arafat walks away and starts the intifada. Israel withdraws from Gaza, palestinians reciprocate by electing Hamas, Hamas uses "liberated" Gaza to launch daily rocket attacks against Israeli towns, Hamas illegally crosses the border, kills and abducts Israeli citizens, Hezbollah has been shelling Israeli towns for years, Hezbollah crosses Israeli border, kills and kidnaps Israeli soldiers.
What can I possibly propose, it takes two to make peace and it's obvious which side does not want it.
No, but those who do justify violence do belong in a court to determine the legality of that violence...
Quote from dddooo:
I am glad you don't disagree with the points I madebut I've come to expect significantly more logical responses from you - a lot of prisoners do justify their criminal actions but it does not follow that everone justifying their actions belongs in jail.
Capabilities show you what a proportional response should look like. Since the Palestinians can't drive Israel into the sea it hardly makes sense to do so to them does it? That's just talk.
But we're too general here anyway. We'd have to distinguish between the militia's that are actively attacking Israel and the Palestinian people who are just trying to make a life for themselves. If you want to drive the militia's into the sea I'm all for it. But not at the expense of eliminating millions of people to get the few.
As to the argument of the gun vs knife, what we are arguing about is the size of the gun and the use to which it is put. Israel has the option of a variety of responses from assasination to full scale invasion. What I am being critical of is the level and scope of response chosen at this time in response to this set of events. You didn't respond to that point. We don't disagree that violence should be met with violence. We do disagree about the level and scope of response that is appropriate in this instance.
Next, I think your view of the Hamas elections is too black and white. Much of what drove Fatah out of power was the level of corruption and their inability to make progress in improving the lives of the Palestinians. Simply put, it was not a referendum on the Palestinian perspective on statehood and Israel. The fact that Hamas was recently willing to go for a tacit recognition of Israel was a big step forward -- imo -- and a sign that the financial pressure being brought to bear was having an impact.
Lastly, I think you oversimplify the problems of a relatively unarmed populace trying to deal with well armed organized quasi governmental or government militias. The Afghani's are quite happy to have the Taliban out but they couldn't have done so themselves as the Taliban were too entrenched. My take is that these failed states or quais states are very much feudalistic societies. In the absence of economic growth or a white knight -- as was the US in Afghanistan -- they seemed doomed to remain such.
The Palestinian people have elected government and in civilised world this is a government's responsibility to garantee the safe life & decent living of the common people. They should think about feeding their people first instead engaging in those cross-border provocations against the neighboring souvereign state. The responsibility is totally on the shoulders of Palestinian governing bodies.
So we should presume both sides innocent, that is your position?
Where does bombing and killing innocents fit with this?
Where does bombing and killing innocents fit with this?