Israel backed by army of cyber-soldiers

[sameeh55]

This is Mads Gilbert, the Norwegian doctor in Gaza you were talking about destroyer. He told Sky News that the number of civilians injured and killed in Gaza proves that Israel is deliberately attacking the population.

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[a_person]

Quote from destroyer:

I haven't spoken of settlers in Gaza, I spoke of settlers in the West Bank:
You brought up settlers to explain rocket attacks. Settlers are in the West Bank indeed, rockets are not fired from the West Bank. There are no settlers in Gaza, Gaza fired 10,500 rockets into Israel. Why do I always have to explain such simple things to you as if you were a stupid 10 year old kid.

Ehud Barak said it himself, they have been planning the invasion of Gaza for six months.
Really, no kidding? The military was planning for a possible confrontation with a mortal enemy. Wow, that's totally unprecedented, I smell conspiracy (jewish, no less)

the Israeli government tried with all it's power to isolate Hamas long before rockets where fired.
even if what you say was true, is that supposed to justify the war that Hamas started? Israel was using legitimate diplomatic means (and it had good reasons too).

Israel demanded that Hamas lay down all weapons, recognize Israels right to exist and basically take Israeli cock up their ass before even talking to them.
Actually Israel demanded that Hamas honored existing agreements signed by the previous government of Gaza. How very unreasonable of them.

Hamas offered a deal in which Israel and Hamas would have had a 10 year long truce in exchange for Israel ending the occupation of Palestinian territories;
Oh how very generous of them. So they were at war with Israel if they offered truce, weren't they. Finally you're making some sense. More importantly internationally recognized formula is land for peace, not land for truce.

But Israel didn't want that
Of course they did not want it. Hamas was getting 100% of what they wanted, Israel was getting absolutely nothing. Are you fucking insane, you stupid hamasnik?

extreme elements within Hamas prevailed - just like everyone anticipated.
Please name someone in Hamas who is not extreme. You're losing your mind trying to defend the indefensible. They are fucking Islamic fundamentalists just like Taliban and just like Taliban no amount of power and responsibility for their people will ever moderate their views. What part of Islamic fundamentalism don't you understand?

Hamas was elected democratically
So was Hitler but it absolved neither him, nor the Nazis nor the Germans of the responsibility for their actions.

I understood that once Hamas was isolated, they'd go extreme and start attacking Israel
They never stopped attacking Israel. That's why they got isolated in the first place. Don't take my word for it though, read their charter.

 

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from sameeh55:

Today, the Israeli army instructed 3 families (40 civilians including women and children in total) to leave their homes and move into a 2 levels house. The moment the three families cramped into the house, the Israeli army decided to shell them with rockets at it killing all except a father and his 7 years old son.

I think the facts would show that it is radical Islamists like Hamas, and not the Israelis, who have

1) stated publicly that it is okay to kill innocent civilians in the name of God, as a tool for change, and

2) backed up their words with actions by murdering innocent civilians in the U.S., Bali, Madrid, Yemen, Kenya, Saudi Arabia, London, Tanzania, Israel, Peru, Pakistan, India, Phillipines, Morocco, Egypt, and many other countries.

A look at the lists here is instructive. We tend to forget how many 'Westeners and Jews' have been murdered by these people since 2001. The fact that local innocents are also killed seems to be okay with them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents

As far as I know, the Israelis do not go around the world setting off bombs and killing civilians, do they? The radical Islamists do, though. And that's what Hamas are. They're not Palestinian Nationalists at all. This all has something to do with 'jihad' which is war against anyone who isn't Muslim. Pretty crazy stuff!

 

[a_person]

Human shields

Two residents who spoke to an AP reporter by phone said ...a group of militants — one of them said four — were firing mortar shells from near the school.

An Israeli shell targeted the men, but missed and they fled, the witnesses said, refusing to allow their names to be published because they feared for their safety. Then another three shells landed nearby, exploding among civilians, they said.

Palestinian militants have frequently fired from residential areas in the past.

Ging said the U.N. agency's staff work to prevent militants from entering the 23 schools it is using to shelter 15,000 people.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28404637/

 

[destroyer]

Quote from a_person:
I haven't spoken of settlers in Gaza, I spoke of settlers in the West Bank:
You brought up settlers to explain rocket attacks. Settlers are in the West Bank indeed, rockets are not fired from the West Bank. There are no settlers in Gaza, Gaza fired 10,500 rockets into Israel. Why do I always have to explain such simple things to you as if you were a stupid 10 year old kid.

No, I brought up settlers as part of the overall explanation of palestinian frustration towards Israel. And you didn't answer any of my questions. You should ask yourself why that always is the case, try to figure out why you're never able to answer questions like that.

Ehud Barak said it himself, they have been planning the invasion of Gaza for six months.
Really, no kidding? The military was planning for a possible confrontation with a mortal enemy. Wow, that's totally unprecedented, I smell conspiracy (jewish, no less)

No, they were not planning for a possible confrontation, they were planning to confront Hamas themselves: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050426.html

Also take a look at the timing; last couple of weeks with the most Israel friendly US president in history, EU governance days away from falling into the hands of friendly Czech Republic, Israeli election coming up in which the sitting government needs to portray themselves as strong and capable. The timing is not just perfect, it's quite possibly Israels last chance to restore face after the Hezbollah flop in 2006, for a long, long time.

On top of this, virtually all independent sources say Israel was the one to breach the ceasefire, including the UN and even CNN:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1051211.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KntmpoRXFX4
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/1230/1230581467173.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians

You've got something on your face. I believe it is egg.

the Israeli government tried with all it's power to isolate Hamas long before rockets where fired.
even if what you say was true, is that supposed to justify the war that Hamas started? Israel was using legitimate diplomatic means (and it had good reasons too).

As you can see above, Israel started the war and not Hamas. I know, sick, isn't it?

But Israel didn't want that
Of course they did not want it. Hamas was getting 100% of what they wanted, Israel was getting absolutely nothing. Are you fucking insane, you stupid hamasnik?

What Hamas wanted was to "liberate all Palestinian land". A truce in which Israel withdraws from illegaly occupied territories is nowhere near "100% of what they wanted". In fact, it's what the PLO has been demanding for decades.

You're always so personally invested in these debates, always so strong feelings from your part. Had you conformed to the truth at least, and defended Israel from a reasonable point of view, I'd say you might be a simple friend of Israel, but the notorious lies, the ignoring of all tough questions, the belief in the old myths of Joan Peters; it's not natural, none of it is natural for a regular American. So tell me, what's your investment? Got family over there?

What's the point of Israeli settlements in Palestinian territories, a_person?

 

[destroyer]

Quote from traderNik:
As far as I know, the Israelis do not go around the world setting off bombs and killing civilians, do they? The radical Islamists do, though. And that's what Hamas are. They're not Palestinian Nationalists at all. This all has something to do with 'jihad' which is war against anyone who isn't Muslim. Pretty crazy stuff! [/B]

They do in fact, they even was caught once: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

Makes you wonder how many times they've done similar things and gotten away with it.

 

[a_person]

Quote from destroyer:

No, I brought up settlers as part of the overall explanation of palestinian frustration towards Israel.
We were discussing the situation in Gaza and Hamas rocket attacks, we were not discussing "overall explanation of frustration", that is until you ran out of actual excuses for Hamas and started throwing unrelated dirt, hoping that something would stick. Yes there are settlers in the West Bank, it in no way, shape or for explains or justifies Hamas rocket attacks from Gaza as Gaza troops and settlers left a long time ago, and the West Bank is actually negotiating, not fighting.

On top of this, virtually all independent sources say Israel was the one to breach the ceasefire, including the UN and even CNN:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1051211.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KntmpoRXFX4
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/1230/1230581467173.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians

LOL, you've got to be kidding, some independent sourcres you've found:

The haaretz article quotes a lady named Karen Abu Zayd who does not actually blame Israel (she says the Gazans don't think Hamas broke the truce...no kidding?), the Irish article is written by a political officer of the Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign (some independent source) and the guardian article despite its usual anti-Israel leanings does not blame Israel and correctly indicates that they blew up a 250 meter tunnel Hamas was digging into Israel. Your youtube video presented Palestinian opinion only (no pro-Israel representative to rebut) and still, it confirmed that Israel blew up a tunnel Hamas was digging into Israel, which was never in dispute.

So these are the most "independent" sources you could find, huh? And even they don't blame Israel. You really have to be ashamed of yourself. I am beginning to seriously suspect that you are actually an arab, not a norvegian. You sure lie as as shamelessly as only arabs can.

It's also kind of intersting that the arab lady in the Haaretz article claims the Gazans were surprised that Israel started its attack in the middle of the lull. Duh, that's because prior to Israel's counter strike it was Hamas who did all the bombing, they should have been in Sderod, not Gaza to figure out that thanks to Hamas there was no lull.


In fact, it's what the PLO has been demanding for decades.
Who cares what they demand. Since when negotiations are based on completely absurd and unrealistic demands. Demanding everything they can possibly dream of for absolutely nothing is so absurd that it only fools hamas-loving idiots like you, hardly anyone else.

What's the point of Israeli settlements in Palestinian territories, a_person?
The spoils of war that Israel is more than willing to trade for peace to any willing partner as they demonstrated with Egypt, Jordan and Gaza (no partner there).

 

[destroyer]

Quote from a_person:
The haaretz article quotes a lady named Karen Abu Zayd who does not actually blame Israel (she says the Gazans don't think Hamas broke the truce...no kidding?), the Irish article is written by a political officer of the Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign (some independent source) and the guardian article despite its usual anti-Israel leanings does not blame Israel and correctly indicates that they blew up a 250 meter tunnel Hamas was digging into Israel. Your youtube video presented Palestinian opinion only (no pro-Israel representative to rebut) and still, it confirmed that Israel blew up a tunnel Hamas was digging into Israel, which was never in dispute.

Karen Abu Zayd is a UN official and the Youtube video with Jim Clancy did a factcheck on the palestinian opinion which was confirmed. Israel broke the truce, just deal with it.

So these are the most "independent" sources you could find, huh?

Definitely more independent than whatever you've got. What do you have, exactly? I know Fox News wrote something about Hamas breaking the ceasefire a while ago, and I know that in the start of this conflict, before the msm had examined who broke the ceasefire, several officials including Fatah said Hamas broke it. As you know, things have changed since then. What do you have now?

I am beginning to seriously suspect that you are actually an arab, not a norvegian. You sure lie as as shamelessly as only arabs can.

Huh, you're beginning to seriously suspect I'm an Arab? You've been calling me Arab ever since the first time I didn't bend over for you, tool. It's Norwegian with a 'w' by the way.

It's also kind of intersting that the arab lady in the Haaretz article claims the Gazans were surprised that Israel started its attack in the middle of the lull. Duh, that's because prior to Israel's counter strike it was Hamas who did all the bombing, they should have been in Sderod, not Gaza to figure out that thanks to Hamas there was no lull.

Let me get this straight. You're saying that Gazans should have been in Sderot so that they could experience the horrors of war? You actually believe that life under Sderot were 8 or so people died from rockets over the past 3,5 years is worse than life in Gaza? To bad Israeli leaders aren't as demented as you are, it would have been fun if they made that offer to Gazans who would have traded place in a split second. For christ sake, Sderot is heaven compared to Gaza.

A nine months old girl just had her entire family, 11 people, annihilated. And she lost her hand. That's in one single attack. Yeah, those bastard Gazans would definately learn a thing or two if they experienced the hard life of Sderot. Idiot.

In fact, it's what the PLO has been demanding for decades.
Who cares what they demand. Since when negotiations are based on completely absurd and unrealistic demands. Demanding everything they can possibly dream of for absolutely nothing is so absurd that it only fools hamas-loving idiots like you, hardly anyone else.

We've already been over this, during peace negotiations Israel has been offering virtually nothing while PLO has been giving and giving. I've given you documentation for this.

What's the point of Israeli settlements in Palestinian territories, a_person?
The spoils of war that Israel is more than willing to trade for peace to any willing partner as they demonstrated with Egypt, Jordan and Gaza (no partner there).

Ah, spoils of war. So because retarded Arab leaders decided to attack Israel, it is acceptable for Israel to steal land from regular, civilian, innocent Palestinian farmers? You'll need to elaborate on this on. Is it because Palestinian genes are similar to that of Jordanian genes? Is it because both Palestinian farmers and Egyptian soldiers speak Arabic? If Hamas in the future somehow managed to win a war against the Israeli government and occupy say Sderot, is it acceptable for Hamas to take the land as "spoils of war"? Is it okay for Hamas to throw the people of Sderot out of the land and place out palestinian settlements?

Dude, your moral compass is broken. Sort of demonstrates how the state of Israel came to be though, ironically enough the entire nation is built on methods based on this sort of ethics. Or rather this sort of lack of ethics.

 

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from destroyer:

They do in fact, they even was caught once: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

Makes you wonder how many times they've done similar things and gotten away with it.

Exactly. Thank you for proving the point. One attack by a crazy person (sure, every group has crazy people) vs. institutionalized mass murder of civilians on a global scale, all in the name of Allah, by the Islamic fanatics.

What's most interesting is that the Koran expressely forbids the murder of civilians and suicide. The blood lust of groups like Hamas drives them to do these made-up things called 'fatwas' in which the rules laid down by the Prophet ((PBUH) are thrown out the window so that they can perpetuate Helter-Skelter on innocents like the lovely, open-hearted lady who was a window cleaner in Windows on the World. She was murdered by the fanatic Islamists on Sept. 11, 2001.

Let us not forget - Hamas, Hezbollah, etc are not Nationalist parties. They are fundamentalist Islamists who have as much contempt for the secular Arab nations as they do for Jews or me, a Westerner who believes in bizarre ideas like democracy, freedom of thought, freedom of press, freedom for women, and freedom of religion.

 

[destroyer]

Quote from traderNik:

Exactly. Thank you for proving the point. One attack by a crazy person (sure, every group has crazy people) vs. institutionalized mass murder of civilians on a global scale, all in the name of Allah, by the Islamic fanatics.

Apparently you didn't look at the link. There are tons and tons of examples of crazy Israeli settlers attacking Palestinians, not "just one". That's not even interesting. What's interesting about the Lavon affair is that the Israeli government decided to do false flag operations. And what's even more interesting is that they actually got caught. It's simply unreasonable to think that this was the one and only time they ever tried something like that. Think of all they've gotten away with.

As for your analysis of terrorist groups, I think you're far off, on both their means and motivations. Sounds like the neoconservatives got to you. Other than that, I completely agree with your post.