Islam doesn't belong in a civilized country

[stu]

Christ is the final Guide for all His followers

Luke 19
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

This is in sharp contrast to the Koran

Koran 64
But if you pardon and exonerate and forgive, Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful.




Nonsense and absurdity is never carried out so completely and cheerfully than with religious belief and conviction.

"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." - Voltaire

 

[Maverick1]

Stu,

A man had three sons whom he loved and raised to work in the family business. But the middle-born son from an early age began to nurture hatred in his heart for his brothers, especially the eldest. One day, after a quarrel in the field, he angrily struck and maimed his older brother. Deeply wounded in his heart by what had taken place, but resolved to reform his middle-born, the father nevertheless reached out to him saying, "My son, why would you do such a thing? Have I not loved and provided for you? Is this how you repay me?" The son would not look his father in the eyes. "You do not deserve this, but I forgive you. Now go and sin no more". But the son rejected his Father's kindness and forgiveness, haughtily saying in his heart: "Who is he to question me? He (older brother) got what he deserved!" It was not long before he got into another fight with the business workers. When the father heard of this, he sent his youngest son as a mediator to settle the dispute. When the youngest arrived, his brother shouted angrily "Who are you to judge me in this matter?" and in a fit of rage assaulted and killed him. Fearing that he had made a mistake by sending his youngest, the father rushed to town to turn him back. But it was too late, upon seeing his youngest lying on the ground, he fell to his knees and cried out. He then called the police, fearing for the lives of his employees. When they arrived they got into a standoff with the angry son and shot him dead.

So it will be with anyone who rejects the grace and mercy of God in Christ, only to rebel and continue in their wicked ways. Judgment is His and His only. As for the followers of Christ, they have no other mandate than to love their enemies.

Koran 64
But if you pardon and exonerate and forgive, Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

If the Koran teaches to pardon and exonerate and forgive, why then does it prescribe death or 100 lashes for the adulterer? In sharp contrast, Jesus forgives the adulterer, and then tells her to go and sin no more, teaching His followers to do the same.

Further, Christ taught His followers to love their enemies and do good to them. This is significantly beyond forgiveness. Does the Koran teach to do likewise?

"If we truly believe in Christ, we shall love our neighbor" - M1

 

[stu]

If the Koran teaches to pardon and exonerate and forgive, why then does it prescribe death or 100 lashes for the adulterer?

If the Bible teaches to pardon and exonerate and forgive, why then does it prescribe death to those who don't buy into it's commands?

Matthew 23: Jesus Condemns Hypocrites!

Further, Christ taught His followers to love their enemies and do good to them. This is significantly beyond forgiveness. Does the Koran teach to do likewise?

Of course the Koran teaches likewise.

The real question I think is Mav, how come you seem to have decided people need questionable holy texts of one kind or another to tell them how to behave rather than to do good purely for its own sake?

True goodness does not need a promise of a heaven or a threat of hell to see the merit in its deed.

 

[JSOP]

Islam doesn't belong in a civilized country

-Correction: EXTREME Islam doesn't belong in a civilized country. And EXTREME kind of ANY religion, behaviour, thoughts, attitudes, mentality, beliefs does NOT belong in a civilized country.

The way to eradicate extremism is to Respect and embrace what is different from you.

 

[Maverick1]

Of course the Koran teaches likewise.

If the Koran says to love our enemies, why then does it prescribe death or 100 lashes for the adulterer who is barely an enemy?

If the Bible teaches to pardon and exonerate and forgive, why then does it prescribe death to those who don't buy into it's commands?

It doesn't, see post #36. The Bible doesn't say stone the adulterer or give them 100 lashes (as the Koran does) but instead Christ fulfills the law, meaning He brings it to maturity and completes it where it was lacking. He teaches that love of God and neighbor is the highest commandment. His new commandment is that we would love one another as He loved us. That is why the New Covenant is superior to the old one.

Regarding judgment, it is the just punishment of the wicked who refuse the grace, mercy and love of God and persist in their hatred and harm of others. See the parable in #42.

 

[OddTrader]

My hypothesis for the only word that Jesus wrote on dirt was probably this one below.

I would say it is equivalent to " Appropriation of caring-oneself and caring-others . A balancing act between self-serving and self-giving, depending on situations. "

Just 20 cents! LOL

Why different cultures/environments/situations can be so critical/important in the growth of different religions?

Especially when different cultures mean for different group of people living in very different places, of which one could have abundant resources for daily life, whereas another could have minimal resources for daily life, just like living in desserts with very limited drinking water and food supply.

Kindness will always remain a possibility when resources are abundant. Ascendancy could be the effective survival principle when resources are scarce.

Particularly in a situation involving two people/friends/relatives one of whom has to die, due to whatever reasons including insufficient food/water to live until next supply arriving.

Hence the philosophy/theology for two very diverse cultures can be very different. It's not a matter of right or wrong, but just different, very different.

None should claim a better one than others, except helping each other for updating their theology/phylosophy for modernisation purpose!

LOL

 

[OddTrader]

If the Koran says to love our enemies, why then does it prescribe death or 100 lashes for the adulterer who is barely an enemy?



It doesn't, see post #36. The Bible doesn't say stone the adulterer or give them 100 lashes (as the Koran does) but instead Christ fulfills the law, meaning He brings it to maturity and completes it where it was lacking. He teaches that love of God and neighbor is the highest commandment. His new commandment is that we would love one another as He loved us. That is why the New Covenant is superior to the old one.

Regarding judgment, it is the just punishment of the wicked who refuse the grace, mercy and love of God and persist in their hatred and harm of others. See the parable in #42.

Based on the above conviction of yours, I sincerely think you are a very blessed believer in your preferred religion.

With an open mind to accept/include the beauty of other religions, you would, I firmly believe, become a much more blessed one beyond your current status.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuism

 

[OddTrader]

A search for curiosity purpose:

 

[OddTrader]

It sees Egypt has been for long time quite open to European classical music traditions.

http://arabicmusicband.com/articles/modernisation-and-westernisation-of-music-in-egypt


Westernisation and Modernization of Egyptian Music

Muhammad Ali (1804-1848) introduced to Egypt European military bands, along with European music theory, notation and music education. Khedive Isam’il (r.1863-1879) erected the famous Opera House in Cairo, and brought Italian Opera and symphonic orchestras from Europe to Egypt. European art music and its Egyptian imitation appealed primarily to an elite cosmopolitan group, which included political thinkers, music critics, government officials and foreigners. The full sound of the large European orchestras deeply impressed many Egyptian composers and musicians, and inspired the introduction of large sections of western musical instruments to the previously intimate traditional classic Arabic music performance.

Before the grand orchestral symphonies from Europe reached Cairo, Ottoman governors of Egypt regarded the traditional Arabic Takht as highly sophisticated art music. The Takht ensemble which consisted of traditional Arabic art music instruments such as the qanun, the ud, nay, the kamanja, and a riqq, and a male solo singer, who could be accompanied by a vocal chorus.

The repertoire of the takht ensemble usually consisted of a waslat. Traditionally, the wasla consisted of a series of approximately ten to twelve songs of the muwashshah genre, qasidah, or dawr. The songs were generally based within one maqam, and ordered according to rhythmic mode progressing from a heavy rhythm to a lighter rhythmic meter. Waslas also included layali, and mawwal, and taqasim, and instrumental forms such as the dulab, and the instrumental genres of Ottoman Turkish origin such as the samai and bashraf.

During the beginning of the Twentieth century the traditional Takht ensemble was modernized to become a new form of Arabic Music Ensemble called the Fiqah inspired by large westernized orchestral performance. It was larger in size than the four to five piece takht ensemble, and ranged from six to about thirty instruments, and had integrated elements of European orchestral performances. Western orchestral string instruments and flutes were introduced. A western-style male, female or mixed chorus was added to the firqah, which was considered by many Egyptians as being a highly evolved and dramatic musical idiom. Conductors were introduced to replace the leadership position of the qanun or riqq, which would have been the traditional leader of the takht ensemble. The subtle heterophony and flexible improvisatory quality of the pre-World War I takht style was replaced with a dense monophonic texture, lush orchestral accompaniment and choral arrangements using unison and parallel octave relationships and drones. Finally and most crucially, westernized introductions to twentieth century Arabic art music composition began to replace traditional modal improvisation.

Ali Jihad Racy commented in 1981:

Instead of the delicate heterophony found in takht music, the Troupe’s performances exhibit a dense texture created by many layers of unison and octave relationships. Also, genres such as the dawr, which originally allowed a fair amount of improvisation, are interpreted strictly as fixed works with preset melodic motifs and cadential patterns and dynamic inflections which are indicated during the performance by the conductor. (Racy 1981, p.16)

Concert halls and large theatres became the main live performance settings for the firqah. Radio developed into the most important medium for the transmission of firqah performances to a large audience of all classes in Cairo. Music-films increased in popularity in Egypt between the nineteen-thirties and fifties and featured solo vocalists accompanied by a firqah ensemble.

Although a few musicians performed in public coffee houses, music appeared most typically on special occasions- in a sahrah (evening social gathering) held normally during a farah (wedding festivity) …after World War I …the performers presented their musical product to a large public on a less personalised level. It became common for urban artists such as Umm Kalthum and Abd al-Wahhab to “give concerts” in the European sense of term.
(Racy 1977, p. 49-50)

Inevitably, the formal orchestral stage performance of Arabic music in large European-style concert halls created a barrier between the audience and the musicians, which eliminated the intimate relationship between the musicians and audience, diminishing the provocation of tarab, which had previously been an essential element of Arabic Takht performance.

The need to play together in large ensembles shifted emphasis from displays of individual virtuosity and personal creativity to collective discipline. (Shiloah 1995, p.107)

In order to keep pace with the growth of western music in Egypt, an increasing number of Egyptian musicians studied western music and instruments. The modern twentieth century Egyptian composers of symphonic music originated from the family of the new Egyptian westernized elite, and received private musical training in both Arab and Western music. Some of them studied in the well-known conservatoires of Europe.
The aim of the new progressive Egyptian composer was to draw on elements of western art music, which they believed to be advanced, without losing the essence of Arabic music. They sought to combine western counterpoint, harmony texture and rhythm patterns with the oriental colour of Egyptian traditional instruments and music.

The use of western instruments which had a flexible tuning system, such as orchestral string instruments, was favoured because they suited the microtonal system and maqam modulation.

With the urbanisation of Cairo and establishment of the middle classes as the cultural engine of this fledgling state, a return to the old culture was impossible. Twentieth century Egyptian composers Sayyid Darwish (1891-1923), Riyadh al-Sonbati (1906-1981), Mohammed al-Qasabgi (1892-1966), Zakariya Ahmed (1896 – 1961), and Mohammed Abdel-Wahhab (1910-1991) among others were the leading figures to modernize Arabic musical culture at the same time as reinforcing its traditional heritage. They took their inspiration from the musical heritage of the working classes of Egypt and performed their work at festivities in lower- and middle-class neighbourhoods, as well as in Cairo’s theatre district. Phonographic recordings of their music were widely circulated and located in public places to be accessible to the general public. “Notices in the press about these men rarely failed to mention their essential Egyptianness” (Danielson 1991, p.113)

Shaykh Sayyid Darwish, who composed the new national anthem, is considered to be the most influential figure in the development of modern Arabic music composition, and is often seen as the father of the modernisation of Arabic music. Darwish was inspired by European classical music, particularly Italian Opera. His compositional work included music for theatre and musicals, and he blended western instruments and harmony with the classical Arabic musical forms and Egyptian music folklore. Muhammad Abd al-Wahhab modernized Egyptian songs and made Arab music more compatible with European art music, maintaining the essential character of Egyptian music. He introduced popular European dance musical genres like the tango and waltz into his compositions. “Nationalistic critique in Egypt commented that Abd al-Wahhab borrows from western art music with the excuse that it is…artistic and done in accordance with Arab musical taste”. (Racy 1982, p.401)

The desire to keep up with the process of modernization in the west led to further advancement of Arabic music performance. Radio provided an important channel of musical distribution to the masses of Egypt. From the late 1930s, Cairo’s private radio stations broadcasted live performances as well as commercial recordings of Egyptian music. Egypt was recognized as the Arabic cultural heartland and musical centre of the Arab world. By the middle of the Twentieth century, modern mass media distribution and western technology had created a new platform for stardom and national heroes.

The first Egyptian musical film appeared in Cairo in 1932. Within a short time musical films produced in Egypt acquired a growing popularity throughout the Arab World, featuring such singers as Add al-Wahhab, Umm Kulthum, Asmahan el Atrach (1917-1944), Farid el Atrach (1914-1974), and Leyla Murad (1918-1995). They were well established in Cairo and often had a career both as a recording artist and as a movie star, as well as performing in the concert halls of Cairo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_Egypt#Western_classical_music

Western classical music

Western classical music was introduced to Egypt, and, in the middle of the 18th century, instruments such as the piano and violin were gradually adopted by Egyptians. Opera also became increasingly popular during the 18th century, and Giuseppe Verdi's Egyptian-themed Aida was premiered in Cairo on December 24, 1871.

By the early 20th century, the first generation of Egyptian composers, including Yusef Greiss, Abu Bakr Khairat, and Hasan Rashid, began writing for Western instruments. The second generation of Egyptian composers included notable artists such as Gamal Abdelrahim. Representative composers of the third generation are Ahmed El-Saedi and Rageh Daoud. In the early 21st century, even fourth generation composers such as Mohamed Abdelwahab Abdelfattah (of the Cairo Conservatory) have gained international attention.

 

[OddTrader]

Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi is heading to Washington this weekend ahead of a Monday meeting with US President Donald Trump.

01.04.2017

http://www.dw.com/en/egyptian-president-sisi-heads-to-washington-to-meet-trump/a-38253183


Egypt is one of two Arab countries that have a peace treaty with Israel and has traditionally played a central role in US regional alliances. In return, Cairo receives $1.3 billion (1.2 billion euro) in annual military aid.

The Egyptian president will meet with cabinet members and lawmakers ahead of his meeting with Trump.

And he will also meet with representatives of the World Bank and International Monetary Fund. Egypt has been negotiating billions of dollars in aid to help revive an economy beset by political turmoil since a 2011 revolt.

A dollar shortage has crippled imports and driven away foreign investors.

Egypt received the first tranche of a three-year $12 billion loan from the IMF and is expecting to receive the second $3 billion tranche soon.