Is Trading Itself a Bad Trade? I Analyzed the Industry- Prove Me Wrong

[murray t turtle]

In answer to your question, there have been 15,001 views on this thread so far.

Of those 15,001, I suspect that a significant percentage have a full-blown gambling addiction and a further percentage have experienced stages when they have developed such an addiction in part or for certain periods of time

If anyone is brave enough, please post a case study of addiction

You maybe right.
AsD08+ Mr Mick noted; some addiction s are positive. IF you are not addicted to WATER, you will be a dead duck so to speak, QUICK. LOL+True.
Also trading/investing is not gambling; I don't care how many times the WSJ claims it is. NOT a prediction,or a gamble ;but Mr musk seems to be addicted to fighting with the SEC/shortsellers=worse than gambling.

I enjoy going thru charts like a bull elephant or a polar bear loves water. Actualyl i'm behind today on my goal of 8 glasses a day.,

 

[schweiz]

If you are not addicted to finance (and not emotionally attached) - you are far more likely to make money out of it, in my opinion. If you are, then the addiction will consume your money and your time.

If you are not addicted you will never reach the point of profitability. The road can be long and hard. It can take years. To overcome that you need some addiction. I have seen many people trying to become a profitable trader. Most of them failed because they were not enough addicted to survive. 2 of my children were in that situation.

There is also healthy addiction and unhealthy addiction. Everything is not black or white, there are degrees of addiction.

 

[Stockolio]

If you are not addicted you will never reach the point of profitability. The road can be long and hard. It can take years. To overcome that you need some addiction. I have seen many people trying to become a profitable trader. Most of them failed because they were not enough addicted to survive. 2 of my children were in that situation.

There is also healthy addiction and unhealthy addiction. Everything is not black or white, there are degrees of addiction.

Addiction is a strong word... I think obsessed is better suited when it comes to being successful in a chosen profession, addiction level is usually not healthy and self defeating

 

[Stockolio]

1:44 to 2:55 great clip!

 

[CSEtrader]

Sorry but I don't really understand your grammar/what you are trying to say.


.

Sorry but I don't really understand your grammar/what you are trying to say.


.

Sorry!
When my correctors are off to make their homeschool, here is my Runglish taking the flight.

...................................................................................................................................................................................................................
I do not know how Ed Sekota may be making his fortune - probably works for the banks. What I know for sure is he did not care at all for retail traders, considering his harsh answer to me, which he didn't even explain. He is from the banksters' gang, ring of people tightened together with hate towards us - individual, independent - sacrificing to work and learn.

........................................................................................................................................................................................................................

And here is Op's
Dear City boy,
There can be two approaches to interpret your posts, depending on the side from which you come from - firstly, you are a malicious entity from the banksters side, coming here to discourage all novices and possibly unlock the "secret" of who we are. The second one - you are a genuine soul, being tired of all immoralities and abuses performed by the financial industry over unprepared individuals, while you are puzzled by the question of why we exist at all.

I am moving by the second version.
Thank you for your letters and style - it is a real delight to communicate with you.

In your post with reference to addiction, many themes raised, many arguments need to be clarified - addiction v. passion, devotion; the way to release addiction; money managers v. self-directed traders; so-called scientific article.
I will concentrate now only on one of your arguments, -

Gentlemen (and Ladies).
In my roles in trading, brokerage and portfolio management, I carried with me my approach and management of addiction, but this time with a ‘zero tolerance’ policy. No 3-month limit. I had a rule that I would never trade with my own money ever, for example. I used a principle learned from the illegal drugs sector….that the better drug dealers would never use the drugs they sell i.e. ‘never take your own product.’ I had seen and studied the addictive nature of trading and gambling and didn’t want to be enslaved.
.

Emphasis added
If you can not trade your own money you can not reach your true self. You can not understand us, and we have no time or will to explain it to you or anyone else. Sorry. It can come only by experience.
It would be also worthless to try to explain. How can you explain the joy of swimming in the sunrise ocean to one who always crossed waves onboard a yacht but never swam free? How can you explain what is love to one who never let him/herself really follow in love, without thought, calculations, fears, or expectations?
Money is the first chakra, it is the first point to liberate your true self. You may have good wealth, a comfortable life, but still, until you will go through the liberation of the barrier to dealing with money your whole being will not feel complete. It does not matter which side you are born in - if you are born on the side with money, then more work will have to be done.
I was gifted with experience to live and connect with the people from all sides, and all of us are willing to be happy and all of us can be happy, but only if we are true to ourselves and to our consciousness.
So, may I ask - all this labeling with addiction, all this attempt to categorize us, maybe it is simply your conscience which is saying that you missed something? That you were in the mission, as you stated, but you did not really break from the cocoon and did not meet yourself, your true, unique and beautiful self yet?
We are all different and some would even like to fight against others, but one thing, I believe, we all agree - to become really successful in this path of trading, to manage your own money you have to transcend all conditioning, certain pains that other activities can give you... And you become really free, an observer.

 

[ironchef]

I am here, not because of your attacks/insults, but to provide some thought-provoking information and maybe help save a relationship or even a life among the viewers.

Also, my last post regarding 'Thread 2' needed a bit of elaboration, namely, the neuro-chemical aspects of trading that have to be controlled or they will control the trader. 'Thread 1' individuals are less likely to be controlled in this way.

Am I attacking you and your posts? My apology if you thought so.

Anyway I admit I am "Thread 2", love gambling (trading) and cannot help myself.

But, I do get lucky once in a while, especially during this raging bull market.

 

[Visaria]

Sorry!
When my correctors are off to make their homeschool, here is my Runglish taking the flight.

...................................................................................................................................................................................................................
I do not know how Ed Sekota may be making his fortune - probably works for the banks. What I know for sure is he did not care at all for retail traders, considering his harsh answer to me, which he didn't even explain. He is from the banksters' gang, ring of people tightened together with hate towards us - individual, independent - sacrificing to work and learn.

........................................................................................................................................................................................................................

And here is Op's
Dear City boy,
There can be two approaches to interpret your posts, depending on the side from which you come from - firstly, you are a malicious entity from the banksters side, coming here to discourage all novices and possibly unlock the "secret" of who we are. The second one - you are a genuine soul, being tired of all immoralities and abuses performed by the financial industry over unprepared individuals, while you are puzzled by the question of why we exist at all.

I am moving by the second version.
Thank you for your letters and style - it is a real delight to communicate with you.

In your post with reference to addiction, many themes raised, many arguments need to be clarified - addiction v. passion, devotion; the way to release addiction; money managers v. self-directed traders; so-called scientific article.
I will concentrate now only on one of your arguments, -
Emphasis added
If you can not trade your own money you can not reach your true self. You can not understand us, and we have no time or will to explain it to you or anyone else. Sorry. It can come only by experience.
It would be also worthless to try to explain. How can you explain the joy of swimming in the sunrise ocean to one who always crossed waves onboard a yacht but never swam free? How can you explain what is love to one who never let him/herself really follow in love, without thought, calculations, fears, or expectations?
Money is the first chakra, it is the first point to liberate your true self. You may have good wealth, a comfortable life, but still, until you will go through the liberation of the barrier to dealing with money your whole being will not feel complete. It does not matter which side you are born in - if you are born on the side with money, then more work will have to be done.
I was gifted with experience to live and connect with the people from all sides, and all of us are willing to be happy and all of us can be happy, but only if we are true to ourselves and to our consciousness.
So, may I ask - all this labeling with addiction, all this attempt to categorize us, maybe it is simply your conscience which is saying that you missed something? That you were in the mission, as you stated, but you did not really break from the cocoon and did not meet yourself, your true, unique and beautiful self yet?
We are all different and some would even like to fight against others, but one thing, I believe, we all agree - to become really successful in this path of trading, to manage your own money you have to transcend all conditioning, certain pains that other activities can give you... And you become really free, an observer.

Awesome post!

 

[cityboy12]

Sorry!
When my correctors are off to make their homeschool, here is my Runglish taking the flight.

...................................................................................................................................................................................................................
I do not know how Ed Sekota may be making his fortune - probably works for the banks. What I know for sure is he did not care at all for retail traders, considering his harsh answer to me, which he didn't even explain. He is from the banksters' gang, ring of people tightened together with hate towards us - individual, independent - sacrificing to work and learn.

........................................................................................................................................................................................................................

And here is Op's
Dear City boy,
There can be two approaches to interpret your posts, depending on the side from which you come from - firstly, you are a malicious entity from the banksters side, coming here to discourage all novices and possibly unlock the "secret" of who we are. The second one - you are a genuine soul, being tired of all immoralities and abuses performed by the financial industry over unprepared individuals, while you are puzzled by the question of why we exist at all.

I am moving by the second version.
Thank you for your letters and style - it is a real delight to communicate with you.

In your post with reference to addiction, many themes raised, many arguments need to be clarified - addiction v. passion, devotion; the way to release addiction; money managers v. self-directed traders; so-called scientific article.
I will concentrate now only on one of your arguments, -
Emphasis added
If you can not trade your own money you can not reach your true self. You can not understand us, and we have no time or will to explain it to you or anyone else. Sorry. It can come only by experience.
It would be also worthless to try to explain. How can you explain the joy of swimming in the sunrise ocean to one who always crossed waves onboard a yacht but never swam free? How can you explain what is love to one who never let him/herself really follow in love, without thought, calculations, fears, or expectations?
Money is the first chakra, it is the first point to liberate your true self. You may have good wealth, a comfortable life, but still, until you will go through the liberation of the barrier to dealing with money your whole being will not feel complete. It does not matter which side you are born in - if you are born on the side with money, then more work will have to be done.
I was gifted with experience to live and connect with the people from all sides, and all of us are willing to be happy and all of us can be happy, but only if we are true to ourselves and to our consciousness.
So, may I ask - all this labeling with addiction, all this attempt to categorize us, maybe it is simply your conscience which is saying that you missed something? That you were in the mission, as you stated, but you did not really break from the cocoon and did not meet yourself, your true, unique and beautiful self yet?
We are all different and some would even like to fight against others, but one thing, I believe, we all agree - to become really successful in this path of trading, to manage your own money you have to transcend all conditioning, certain pains that other activities can give you... And you become really free, an observer.

Hi,

A very spiritual and emotional post.

I hope that, instead of seeing purely the negatives, you see the positive, the opportunity and the warnings. Addressing the negatives can impact on your success.

As an example, if you knew that climbing Mount Everest had a 9% fatality rate (which it does), you would double-check your kit, your oxygen and make sure you trained hard before you went on your climb? Living in a fantasy world, or a world of delusion can literally kill you (and/or people around you).

If you read my post I explained how managing emotions and addictions could be a very significant factor in making someone into a better trader. I also explained how the vast majority of people do not, in fact do this. I explained how some elements of the industry actually encourage this weaknesses. I also explained the unbelievable harm that this weakness or delusion can wreak on people (suicide being one of them but also debt, homelessness and divorce).

Using the analogy of Everest again, you would be going for your climb with no preparation, physically unfit and a mistaken belief that you were 'stronger' than anything that the elements could throw at you. The 'believing' (positivity, mindless motivational videos etc. notwithstanding) means nothing. Disneyland/Hollywood and various 'philosophies' have programmed people (mainly in the West) with the idea that if you 'believe you can do something' you can. If, 'I believe I can fly' I will still not be able to jump off a cliff with no parachute. I am stating that you would have to objectively prove to yourself that you are strong (fitness test,training tests, kit check etc). In the world of trading a good or improving risk-adjusted P&L. Then you can 'believe' afterwards. Such delusions are why many (Thread 2) people fail in many high performance endeavours - including trading.

If you read my other posts you will see that I fully agree, based on the evidence, that a tiny fraction of a percent of people can become consistently profitable traders. If Everest had a 99.8 % fatality rate...they have been individuals strong enough to achieve the summit. However, if you read the title, the premise is that they should climb a mountain (or several mountains) with a better view a with a far lower fatality rate.

 

[volpri]

Hi,

A very spiritual and emotional post.

I hope that, instead of seeing purely the negatives, you see the positive, the opportunity and the warnings. Addressing the negatives can impact on your success.

As an example, if you knew that climbing Mount Everest had a 9% fatality rate (which it does), you would double-check your kit, your oxygen and make sure you trained hard before you went on your climb? Living in a fantasy world, or a world of delusion can literally kill you (and/or people around you).

If you read my post I explained how managing emotions and addictions could be a very significant factor in making someone into a better trader. I also explained how the vast majority of people do not, in fact do this. I explained how some elements of the industry actually encourage this weaknesses. I also explained the unbelievable harm that this weakness or delusion can wreak on people (suicide being one of them but also debt, homelessness and divorce).

Using the analogy of Everest again, you would be going for your climb with no preparation, physically unfit and a mistaken belief that you were 'stronger' than anything that the elements could throw at you. The 'believing' (positivity, mindless motivational videos etc. notwithstanding) means nothing. Disneyland/Hollywood and various 'philosophies' have programmed people (mainly in the West) with the idea that if you 'believe you can do something' you can. If, 'I believe I can fly' I will still not be able to jump off a cliff with no parachute. I am stating that you would have to objectively prove to yourself that you are strong (fitness test,training tests, kit check etc). In the world of trading a good or improving risk-adjusted P&L. Then you can 'believe' afterwards. Such delusions are why many (Thread 2) people fail in many high performance endeavours - including trading.

If you read my other posts you will see that I fully agree, based on the evidence, that a tiny fraction of a percent of people can become consistently profitable traders. If Everest had a 99.8 % fatality rate...they have been individuals strong enough to achieve the summit. However, if you read the title, the premise is that they should climb a mountain (or several mountains) with a better view a with a far lower fatality rate.

Fishing

 

[CSEtrader]

Awesome post!

Thank you.