Why are you here, again?Gentlemen (and Ladies).
I stepped back from this forum for a reason I actually forgot. You see I have a habit. For many years, I have had a personal habit whereby I would never allow myself to be enslaved to any addiction. Whether is was alcohol, the internet, social media, certain people, an employer, debt or any food...I would never let anything become an addiction. If I recognized that I had even the beginning of an addiction (e.g. I was eating too much chocolate or drinking too often) I would silence the addiction. The longest time limit I have ever given anything is 3 months.
To explain this, I remember an incident with a man who I greatly respected who had a problem with alcohol. He had tried many things to solve his addiction but nothing worked long-term. In our conversation, I explained that many people start an activity (like smoking) because they felt they were stronger than the habit and could always stop. The reason they failed, I said, was because the habit was or had become, in fact, stronger than them and had become an addiction. The secret, I told him, was to create a positive habit that would become stronger than you (e.g. working out, education, eating healthy food etc). I created one (among others) that would protect me. So my habit of stopping me from addictions has protected me,... from addictions.
In my roles in trading, brokerage and portfolio management, I carried with me my approach and management of addiction, but this time with a ‘zero tolerance’ policy. No 3 month limit. I had a rule that I would never trade with my own money ever, for example. I used a principle learned from the illegal drugs sector….that the better drug dealers would never use the drugs they sell i.e. ‘never take your own product.’ I had seen and studied the addictive nature of trading and gambling and didn’t want to be enslaved.
I want to share something else that I did not have the space to add to my synthesis. This was the addictive and neuro-chemical nature of trading (I won’t get into a debate as to whether trading is gambling). In my opinion, the ‘Thread 2’ individual is one who is usually enslaved to neuro-chemical systems in his body. It is, in my opinion, almost impossible for any addicted person to exhibit the characteristics of ‘Thread 1’ as the route they have taken will have reinforced their addictions and irrationality to such an extent that it will be stronger than rational aspects of their being. Had they managed their addictions as I did very early on, these addictions would not have become stronger than rational aspects of their being. There are ways to help them later in the process, but ultimately, they can only help themselves.
Here is an interesting article written by a certified psychiatrist (Dr Dorn) I would like to share with you:
www.thefix.com/content/are-you-trading-or-gambling
Some quotes:
Novices who want to learn to trade are taught a singular lesson before they even put one penny into the markets: Preserve your capital. They hear this, but most do not listen. They see trading as some magical process in which they can sit in their pajamas, click a few times, and suddenly see monies pouring into their accounts. They end up chasing, getting whipsawed and losing. Drip, drip, drip—and then larger chunks of losses and then maybe a margin call and then they are out of the game. The addicts add more money to meet a margin call. This is called throwing good money after bad. It won’t be long until they are also out of the game. Addicts don’t know when to stop trading. They think that tomorrow will be the big win so they do everything possible to get money to bring their accounts up to where they can trade again. They lie, cheat, and steal to do this. Eventually, they fail. Some hit absolute rock bottom.
They are out of capital. But it’s not just financial capital. It’s a whole lot more than money. It’s psychological, physical, emotional and spiritual. They are lost and floundering. At this point, they become prey for the thousands of vultures, cons and hocus-pocus creatures claiming to be the best traders who ever lived, who are out there selling them instant riches. They will bite on the bait and lose more money. Some will pay tens of thousands of dollars to be mentored or coached by another trader. Others will spend large amounts of money to buy programs that promise the Holy Grail of Trading or The Best Trading System in the World. Think about it for a second: If these gurus are so great and have such fabulous trading systems, why are they selling them to you? Why aren’t they out on their own private island, soaking up the sun, sipping a cool one and making millions?
Also, this on...
‘All gamblers die broke; it's a cold hard truth, but not for the reasons most people think. All gamblers die broke because the pain of losing is felt so much more intensely than the joy of winning. Thrill junkies choose gambling for the intensity of the experience, and behavioral psychology long ago demonstrated that the mind's ability to choose rational thrills offering positive rewards over more intense thrills offering irrational, negative rewards is pitiful at best. We're simply not wired that way.”
Hence, I left the thread as it was becoming slightly addictive to interact with you. Chemicals were released due to the social interaction of the thread (dopamine, serotonin and even oxytoxin). So my ingrained habit of stopping any behaviour which could lead to addiction kicked in, unconsciously, without me realizing it.
I logged on today to share this with you. It may help some of you. Certainly, it should be a thought-provoking addition to this thread.
Is Trading Itself a Bad Trade? I Analyzed the Industry- Prove Me Wrong
- Thread starter cityboy12
- Start date
Why are you here, again?
I refer you to my post. I have made a distinction between a habit (a positive thing) and an addiction (which is destructive and can even kill you or others).
Successful people usually have positive habits (a work ethic, or studiousness for example) but addictions, on the other hand, would negatively impact their success. You are making excuses for an addiction by 'putting yourself in the same category' as successful people. A good objective test of whether you are in the same category as 'successful people' is a positive risk-adjusted P&L and KPIs such as money in your account, your achievements, your relationships, your quality of life etc. If you have no retirement plan, are in debt or have negative social relationships then it would be more likely that you are an addict rather than a success as a product of positive habits. A certified medical professional is more capable of diagnosis, however.
My 'habit' of not getting addicted is the example I gave in my post. If you think about this, it explains everything.
As an example of an addiction, the bottom of the doctor's article are two comments. I will replicate one that made an impression on me, this was another physician who became addicted to the financial markets and was nearly destroyed by it.
'...being a physician by profession I had wrongfully assumed i was immune to being compulsions and addictions, how sad and insane.
Just cannot get away from pathological stock market activity, i have lost most of my life savings and at 68 wondering how will finance my retirement. As they say there is not a rich retired compulsive gambler.
Every thing in this write up is so true. I did attempt suicide but survived the attempt but who knows.'
My overall point being that:
1. Trading can develop into an addiction (one which can kill, destroy relationships, crater your retirement plans and make you homeless).
2. There are psychological tools to arm/protect you against it (if you ask I will provide some examples later- not just the one I gave). I have never had any addiction to finance.
3. Some people think they are stronger than an activity (why? ego? a weakness?) but that activity can become an addiction and become stronger that they are. - See the comment by the physician above.
4. If you are not addicted to finance (and not emotionally attached) - you are far more likely to make money out of it, in my opinion. If you are, then the addiction will consume your money and your time.
In answer to your question, there have been 15,001 views on this thread so far.
Of those 15,001, I suspect that a significant percentage have a full-blown gambling addiction and a further percentage have experienced stages when they have developed such an addiction in part or for certain periods of time.
I am here, not because of your attacks/insults, but to provide some thought-provoking information and maybe help save a relationship or even a life among the viewers.
Also, my last post regarding 'Thread 2' needed a bit of elaboration, namely, the neuro-chemical aspects of trading that have to be controlled or they will control the trader. 'Thread 1' individuals are less likely to be controlled in this way.
If anyone is brave enough, please post a case study of addiction
You...
10 days / 100 posts.
What looks to be approximately 20,000 words from CB.
Thread with 15,000+ views.
Has to be some type of ET record.
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Exactly. I've enjoyed going through data and charts like some deranged chimpanzee. One also needs to be a bit odd to enjoy cleaning data manually for days.
For the average person, these things would be incredibly tedious and provide no stimulation at all.
I do not say Op is selling something.
Anthon did not reply to my email which makes me believe Anthon is just a seller and is not devoted to the traders' rights, as he is claiming.
I think that we are just a very different type of traders, from very different perspectives, experience, capital to start, which does not preclude cooperation or for us have possibility and advantage to discovery some traps which another side (brokers etc) putting against us.
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I do not know how ed Sekota may be doing fortune - probably he works for the banks. What I know for sure he did not care at all for retail traders, considering his harsh answer to me, which he even did not explain. he is from banksters gang, ring of people tightened together with hate towards us, individual, independent, sacrificed to work and learn.