Is Trading Itself a Bad Trade? I Analyzed the Industry- Prove Me Wrong

[cityboy12]

As an example, look at the calibre of people hedge funds hire. You have to live in the real world.

https://www.efinancialcareers.com/jobs-Hedge_Funds.s015

Usually need advanced degrees in math, physics etc. Occasionally Phd degrees. Best is from a top tier university. Increasingly, programming skills.

Here is one where they require a track record of producing $2mil P&L. Minimum masters in a quantitative field.

https://www.efinancialcareers.com/j...DER_-_HFT_PROP_FIRM_NEW_YORK_BASED.id05515367

I wish the world was fair and a retail day trader with no qualifications could compete, but they have thousands of hungry candidates for these jobs. Only the best get through.

I am sure Desterio will send them his IRA account stats (with all the commas) and get the job

I forgot to add. The narrative from the 'feel-good' motivational speakers and gurus is that 'you too can be a millionaire' despite the empirical evidence. People essentially 'want to believe'. Unfortunately, if you do not fulfill requirements like

1 Elite qualifications
2 High level mathematical skills
3 Programming skills
4 Verifiable track record
5 Location issues- being based in a major financial centre

The odds will be so stacked against you then defacto it will be nearly impossible. That's the reality.

Equally, fund-raising for a hedge fund without the above PLUS

1 A team of similar people - including track records
2 CONNECTIONS and SALES SKILLS
3 Solid and risk-free structure (auditor, prime broker, operations, IT and licensing). This costs money.

is defacto impossible.

Now remember, a lot of people (in fact, the majority).. with all of the above...fail at their hedge funds.

Nobody likes to burst bubbles, and I am sure someone will sell you the dream that 'anyone can do it if they work hard' (for a fee of course) but you have to analyze the trade/game.

So the only way to win at the game is identify these factors and get them i.e. understand the trade/game and obtain the connections, qualifications etc. And that's only to get a seat at the table.

It was easier years back when HF were new...now with alpha being squeezed and a declining model, expect this trend to get worse.

 

[destriero]

Are you sure you can read your own statements? Because you clearly cannot read mine correctly. That's bad for your ego.

Here's what schweiz produced. Nothing else:

 

[cityboy12]

An easier trade might be to fill a room with gullible, low-IQ people and offer them training for £10k each. £300k risk free- over the space of a few hours.

Here is one company I researched...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-19909942

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-driving-300-000-Lamborghini-erratically.html

His clients were paying for the car and...ahem.... the fine.

 

[destriero]

Cityboy, so you were fleeced, lol. Which of the twelve steps are you on?

 

[destriero]

You would better check that statement as you are showing how stupid you are. The $0.00 is OPEN trade equity. That's always zero for a daytrader as I have no open positions at night. But you are probably too stupid to understand that. That's the kind of supporters Destriero wants as they don't think.
Apparently even Destriero cannot read statements. LOL.

It's an end of year statement. You failed to provide the entire run, but it's clear to anyone who is looking that you produced a run with a zero balance. Ostensibly, it would have helped your case to provide...

an actual dollar figure.

@schweiz the baller:

 

[murray t turtle]

Welcome to ET cityboy12. My 2 cents.




#1: I think for those without true mentors, an educator can help provide a process but it is up to the trader to expand on that and make it work for them.
#2: I'm not a fan of JBO type prop firms where you money is first loss-unless-they provide technology you can't get on your own.
#3: IMO, MM are very important to depth and liquidity. Most would complain more if they did not exit as equity and options markets spread.
#4: ??
#5: I'll revert to #3 and so, so what. We need them.
#6: In the US, this is beauty much a thing of the past, but we still need to look out for those that might fall for these sales pitches.
#7: IMO, stick with Listed stocks and stay away from OTC.
#8: Trading for some does look like a gambling addiction. To me the sign is destructive behavior. And, the comment, "I need to make that money back" by playing bigger.
#9: Not sure what to do with that. The law is the law. We have to adapt.
#10: Most traders are still manual. Robo advisors just put together portfolio for those that prefer a programmed AI to do it for lower fees. For investing, I'd rather just buy the QQQ or SPY and manage risk with the size of my portfolio. AI are not smart enough yet and not enough time has passed to see if they are smarter yet.
#11: It does get harder over time to find your edge,
#12: I'll pass on that one.
#13: ?? Not sure what that means, but many traders turn to trading early with little saving and debt. Not a good way to start.



#1, #2 & #5-That would be nice but not open to all.
#3-I agree for investing not trading. Investing is looking for the ROI while many traders are looking to make or supplement their living wage.
#4- To mean this means having income outside trading or a plan B. I agree if that is what you said.

Again, just my 2 Cents from someone that has been on the sellside, then buy side and now sell side since 1981.

%%
I agree; with most all of that, Mr Robert + Cityboy12.
[#11]I assume the big bear trend /downtrend chart in HFT from 10 billion bucks to 1 billion bucks profit in WSJ, is correct. BUT I profit off trends , not HFT-LOL.

[#8]I don't think trading/investing is gambling @ all or anything close to it; even though WSJ likes to confuse the issue LOL. Having said that i did gamble for quarters,+dollar$ in a pool hall, when younger; commissions were so high then -that was scarey .LOL And while $00 .25 levels could helpful in trading or investing ; I never though Walls Street got that out of pool hall gambling.LOL-LOL

The strangest pattern in trading is so many including me liked to leverage ignorance when learning. Good points.

 

[zenostiffler]

Point taken. Sure math can be used especially in the area of statistics...etc but it can NEVER provide a precise model..stats..markets evolve...nothing is certain..Renaissance will go the way of all such models. To the dust bin. Yes trades need to be structured and math is one way to help in this but still all things are reduced to probability (or better said possibility), risk and reward and their dynamic interaction. Just look at the math based HTF’s that went belly up in recent years.

You got HTF’s fighting HTF’s. They care less about our potatoe chip money or running our stops LOL.

AND the average trader does not, and will not, have the resources to do what Renaissance does (which is probably a point for Cityboy argument) so to argue to use math in trading in such ways and to do so by using Renaissance as an example is well “a horse of a different color” much like price drivers..

The average trader has price action (with all it’s dynamics...spread...0HLC...compared to things to things to left on a chart....)..volume....footprints...and inertia. These are what we have to structure our trades.

When Renaissance is long gone ...when we traders are long gone...the markets will still be around and still be uncertain and people will still be searching for the grail.

When quants are in the dust bin of history their efforts will one day be looked upon with amusement.

For the average trader...learning the many senarios and interactions of PA...Volume (if you would like but vol cannot be 100% trusted) ...footprints...inertia ...and extrapolations are skills that can last them until they have gone to the dust bin themselves.

Very much agree with most of what you say. I won't expand here but you are right. These managers have a period in the sun when things are going well for them and then the crash and burn like JW Henry and so, so many others.

 

[Van_der_Voort_4]

When Renaissance is long gone

When quants are in the dust bin of history their efforts will one day be looked upon with amusement.

ROFLMAO

 

[zenostiffler]

You've stated that you're here for Schadenfreude... just not when it's directed at you? I pick fights with dilettantes. People like yourself with no edge in the markets which hold themselves out as trading successes. It's one of my edges.

I'm not fussed about you picking a fight with me at all. I am merely wondering about your bizarre psychological make up and the inadequacy beneath. I am genuinely puzzled by aggression where none is called for. It's an animal thing, a darwinian evolutionary response. Some of us control it. Some of us are unwilling or unable to control the bile.

 

[destriero]

I'm not fussed about you picking a fight with me at all. I am merely wondering about your bizarre psychological make up and the inadequacy beneath. I am genuinely puzzled by aggression where none is called for. It's an animal thing, a darwinian evolutionary response. Some of us control it. Some of us are unwilling or unable to control the bile.

Darwinian? You think that the overwhelming sympathetic response is for fight over flight? It’s not, BRO. Flight results in parabolic population growth. Your existence is proof of that.

I must be compensating for something. You should fund a study!