Is the USA ready for it's first non-2-party president?

[nitro]

Does it even matter? The real power in the US is in the multinational corporations. They don't hire collectively, you get thrown out as president. I doubt the founding fathers had this lack of power in the people in mind, but there is probably nothing unconstitutional about it (did the corporation even exist in 1776 ?).

I believe that in the next term, or maybe the one after that, the US will elect a radically different president, way more radical (or so we thought) than Obama. Obama wants to do the right thing to get people working, and has compromised his ideals because the real power lies in the corporations. I am not saying that is wrong, just that is not what he was elected to do.

 

[RCG Trader]

Quote from nitro:

Does it even matter? The real power in the US is in the multinational corporations. They don't hire collectively, you get thrown out as president. I doubt the founding fathers had this lack of power in the people in mind, but there is probably nothing unconstitutional about it (did the corporation even exist in 1776 ?).

I believe that in the next term, or maybe the one after that, the US will elect a radically different president, way more radical (or so we thought) than Obama. Obama wants to do the right thing to get people working, and has compromised his ideals because the real power lies in the corporations. I am not saying that is wrong, just that is not what he was elected to do.

What is most quaint for me is that there are individuals that believe that politics changes things for mom and pop.

 

[denner]

Quote from nitro:

Does it even matter? The real power in the US is in the multinational corporations. They don't hire collectively, you get thrown out as president. I doubt the founding fathers had this lack of power in the people in mind, but there is probably nothing unconstitutional about it (did the corporation even exist in 1776 ?).

I believe that in the next term, or maybe the one after that, the US will elect a radically different president, way more radical (or so we thought) than Obama. Obama wants to do the right thing to get people working, and has compromised his ideals because the real power lies in the corporations. I am not saying that is wrong, just that is not what he was elected to do.

When the boomers are gone en masse, I fully expect the political landscape to change dramatically. As I posted in another thread, these bailouts (whether they are perceived logically or not) and attempts to "save the housing market" (remember this is media spin et al), but the younger generation will view all of this waste and excess that was done to simply try and preserve the status quo for asset holders as a burden that falls upon them. The gravy train pensions, the health care for life (remember new entrants into these unions don't or won't get the same benefits)...all of this will create new candidates who will force austerity on this demographic.

But that is still years away I'm afraid. It's similar to the shift from the generation of the first depression passing the torch to the boomers, and let's face facts, alot of the corruption and fraud really reached epic proportions once the cautionary generation died off and/or retired.

 

[T_Geithner]

NO. ... Anyone who thinks America is a free country, has mental issues.

 

[JohnathanIII]

I am sorry is this thread about Ruling Monarchy called private Federal Reserve in control of puppet presidents.


Or are we talking about something else

 

[nitro]

Quote from denner:
When the boomers are gone en masse, I fully expect the political landscape to change dramatically. As I posted in another thread, these bailouts (whether they are perceived logically or not) and attempts to "save the housing market" (remember this is media spin et al), but the younger generation will view all of this waste and excess that was done to simply try and preserve the status quo for asset holders as a burden that falls upon them. The gravy train pensions, the health care for life (remember new entrants into these unions don't or won't get the same benefits)...all of this will create new candidates who will force austerity on this demographic.

I am in the camp that this is ok. The boomers are the sons and daughters of people that died en-mass so that you wouldn't be speaking german right now, if you would be alive at all. The generation before that, the same in WWI, and probably so on all the way to 177x. Every generation owes a debt of gratitude to the last, unless you live in Leninist Russia or some other such. And not just war, but hard work in general. That said, supporting an entire generation to a certain standard of living, through the stock and bond market, but probably mostly the stock market, is perhaps the root of all evil! It has everything to do with the reason for this thread.

As far as bailouts, I don't know what to believe. I am not so naive to think that we could have let the entire banking system collapse and still be competitive in the world economy. Lesser of two evils...However, there is no way that the people that were in charge while this whole thing went down should still be there, let alone collecting bonuses. This is what I mean the real power lies in the corporations - we tippy toes around them collectively, when we should be throwing these people out by the seat of their pants. That's the deal the US government should have made. You want bailout money, sorry, you lose your job. You want bailout money? You have to promise (in writing) to give back to the community that saved you. Again, maybe I am too naive to believe this is possible, it may have done more harm then good.

But that is still years away I'm afraid. It's similar to the shift from the generation of the first depression passing the torch to the boomers, and let's face facts, alot of the corruption and fraud really reached epic proportions once the cautionary generation died off and/or retired. [/B]

There are so many inequities, but simply wishing a people would die off is troublesome thinking imo. I think they should do away with generational inheritance for example. The way the inheritance law is now, if you think about it, it is a kind of eugenics.

I am not sure this has anything to do with my original intent at this thread, but it is worth discussing anyway...

 

[OPTIONAL777]

" I think they should do away with generational inheritance for example. The way the inheritance law is now, if you think about it, it is a kind of eugenics."

The inconsistency from the ruling right wing class, is they emphasis the value of making it on one's own, the glory of creating your own destiny, is the American way and the highest ideal.

Well, if this is such a great thing, then why should they want to deprive their very own children from such a valuable life experience?

No, they simply want to continue an aristocracy in their own name...and preach to the poor that they should work their asses off because it is good for their souls.

Quote from nitro:

I am in the camp that this is ok. The boomers are the sons and daughters of people that died en-mass so that you wouldn't be speaking german right now, if you would be alive at all. The generation before that, the same in WWI, and probably so on all the way to 177x. Every generation owes a debt of gratitude to the last, unless you live in Leninist Russia or some other such. And not just war, but hard work in general. That said, supporting an entire generation to a certain standard of living, through the stock and bond market, but probably mostly the stock market, is perhaps the root of all evil! It has everything to do with the reason for this thread.

As far as bailouts, I don't know what to believe. I am not so naive to think that we could have let the entire banking system collapse and still be competitive in the world economy. Lesser of two evils...However, there is no way that the people that were in charge while this whole thing went down should still be there, let alone collecting bonuses. This is what I mean the real power lies in the corporations - we tippy toes around them collectively, when we should be throwing these people out by the seat of their pants. That's the deal the US government should have made. You want bailout money, sorry, you lose your job. You want bailout money? You have to promise to give back to the community that saved you. Again, maybe I am too naive to believe this is possible, it may have done more harm then good.


There are so many inequities, but simply wishing a people would die off is troublesome thinking imo. I think they should do away with generational inheritance for example. The way the inheritance law is now, if you think about it, it is a kind of eugenics.

I am not sure this has anything to do with my original intent at this thread, but it is worth discussing anyway...

 

[nitro]

Quote from OPTIONAL777:

" I think they should do away with generational inheritance for example. The way the inheritance law is now, if you think about it, it is a kind of eugenics."

The inconsistency from the ruling right wing class, is they emphasis the value of making it on one's own, the glory of creating your own destiny, is the American way and the highest ideal.

Well, if this is such a great thing, then why should they want to deprive their very own children from such a valuable life experience?

No, they simply want to continue an aristocracy in their own name...and preach to the poor that they should work their asses off because it is good for their souls.

Perhaps you have heard the argument that, if everyone was forced to start at zero again, that the money would land in the same hands it is today anyway. There is a strong argument that this is true, but of course it is conjecture.

I do disagree with (what I think) is the tone of your objection (no offense meant). The people that have all the money today are extremely hard working. In fact, many of them have no lives to speak of outside work. But that in itself is a huge problem. Someone suggested to me that this has to do with protestant (Christian ?) guilt that built this nation, and espoused by Max Weber in "The protestant ethic and the spirit of Capitalism", but I am not sure.

One thing is fore sure, we are in critical "Red Queen" economic state. We may have more measured by the crap that we store in our closets, but we have to work way harder just to stay in place. The spirit is a wasteland in this country. The whole thing seems untenable to me, but then the problem is that we as humans don't live long enough to live through history. What I think is awful, may in fact be trivial by historical standards...

What is funny (tragic ?) is that the entire world has bought into the american system. Collapse is imminent within 200 years unless something fundamental changes.

 

[Ricter]

Quote from denner:

When the boomers are gone en masse, I fully expect the political landscape to change dramatically. As I posted in another thread, these bailouts (whether they are perceived logically or not) and attempts to "save the housing market" (remember this is media spin et al), but the younger generation will view all of this waste and excess that was done to simply try and preserve the status quo for asset holders as a burden that falls upon them. The gravy train pensions, the health care for life (remember new entrants into these unions don't or won't get the same benefits)...all of this will create new candidates who will force austerity on this demographic.

But that is still years away I'm afraid. It's similar to the shift from the generation of the first depression passing the torch to the boomers, and let's face facts, alot of the corruption and fraud really reached epic proportions once the cautionary generation died off and/or retired.

That's what the boomers thought back in the 60's. Back then it was the "Establishment".

 

[377OHMS]

Quote from nitro:

I think they should do away with generational inheritance for example. The way the inheritance law is now, if you think about it, it is a kind of eugenics.

Just whos money do you think it is?

If such foolishness were ever made law I will make sure I subvert the entire thing. I would liquidate my estate while still alive and convert it to some hard asset and simply hand it to my heir. Fuck the government.

Try earning your own money.