Is Roger Clemens lying his ass off?

[ElCubano]

Quote from traderNik:

Wrong answer although there's not much that's going to be done about it. The issue with steroids isn't that it's 'cheating'. That characterization has always puzzled me.

The issue is that using steroids in the way that bodybuilders and high performance athletes do is bad for your health, and the message that gets sent to kids in high school (or probably junior high these days - surely the major sports leagues are scouting Grade 9 kids) is that you need to do steroids in order to compete. That's the problem.

everything we put into our system that is not organically grown is a health risk..including every over the counter and prescription drug you have ever taken. the issue is "Cheating" and them trying to back them into a "lying to congress charge"...cuz like they said ...no court or jury from here to cali would ever allow 7 year old siringes into evidence

 

[nitro]

Of course, you are unequivocally correct.

This is even more obvious than Global Warming, and yet there are people that take both sides of the stance as evidenced in this thread.

Teaches you a great deal about human psychology.

nitro

Quote from Thunderdog:

Sorry, wrong answer. That means that anyone who ever wishes to pursue a career as a professional athlete must get juiced, and expose himself to considerable health risk, just to be competitive. And all to entertain you. What if your young son showed early prowess in one sport or another? Would you encourage him to develop his natural talent, which would then have to be supplemented with the likes of anabolic steroids if he is to even have a chance at a career in that sport? Steroid usage in competitive sports is one form of short-cutting and cheating. What kind of environment does that create in the sports world? Whatever happened to actual sportsmanship? I vaguely recall some recent press about early stage bionic limb development for amputees. What happens when technology develops to the point where bionic limbs perform much better than man's natural limbs? Will that inspire some ambitious young athletes to have their arms or legs replaced with bionic limbs to give them an edge? And all so that you can get to see more homeruns?

I think athletes should train hard and do their level best to be competitive. But I don't think they should have to resort to destroying their health (and I'm not just talking about rotator cuffs or knees and such) just to stay in the game. That's absurd and will result in the kind of chemical one-upmanship that will one day result in a league of circus freaks, because the next guy will always be willing to take a bit more chemical risk and play it even closer to the wire...

The use of anabolic steroids and such is a cancer in the sports world. I imagine that the people who don't give a shit are typically the ones who also like to see blood in a hockey rink.

 

[The Kin2]

Had Clemens looked like this, then I could see the possibility of steroids use.

 

[ilikefox es]

Quote from The Kin2:

Had Clemens looked like this, then I could see the possibility of steroids use.

I'm unable to see the traps, but from this view they don't look protruding, therefore he must be clean.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from nitro:

...This is even more obvious than Global Warming, and yet there are people that take both sides of the stance as evidenced in this thread...

Not very encouraging, is it?

 

[Hombre]

Everybody who ever played pro sports knows that steroids are widely used in EVERY sport where tendons and muscles get injured. There is no athlete who was injured and tried steroid who didn't used them again when injured. Recovery is about 70% faster then without them. There is no meaningful difference between prescription or medical steroids and those "illegal " steroids .

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from Hombre:

Everybody who ever played pro sports knows that steroids are widely used in EVERY sport where tendons and muscles get injured. There is no athlete who was injured and tried steroid who didn't used them again when injured. Recovery is about 70% faster then without them. There is no meaningful difference between prescription or medical steroids and those "illegal " steroids .

I won't pretend to fully grasp what you are talking about, and I admit that I'm only a weekend warrior. However, as a result of having worked out for most of my adult life, I have bad shoulders, notably the right one. (I attribute this at least in part to poor exercise form in my earlier years.) In any event, I had two cortisone shots in my right shoulder, one in 1992 or 1993, and the other last ~summer. Cortisone is an anti-inflammatory steroid that can aid in injury recovery. It is not, however, an anabolic steroid to my knowledge. Further, I will not ever have such a shot again because, although I did it as a last resort, I was advised it's not a good thing. Among other things, as with all steroids, I believe, it weakens your immune system. That alone opens up a rusty can of worms.

 

[Bootsie]

Quote from Rearden Metal:

Congress shouldn't be meddling with this issue, but Roger Clemens still shouldn't be lying his ass off to Congress, either.

The ONLY possible way all these people would come forward to falsely accuse Clemens, would be if they had decided to set him up.
However, Clemens isn't claiming any such thing. Instead, he's saying his accusers are 'fine gentlemen' and 'good friends' who 'mis-recall the events'. Bullshit alarm!

Yes, the alarm went off with me when I heard that too...

I agree with what Reardon is trying to say... Roger should NOT lie his ass off to Congress; society needs some kind of public forum to entrust both truth and honesty as the last stop along the line.

For the record, I am of the opinion that Roger did take steroids... but not for the same reasons most of the posters on these boards (and in public) believe.

I pitched professionally for 9 years. And I can tell you that towards the end of each season, it became a real grind, both physically and mentally. In as sense, Roger and I have suffered some of the same aliments along the way so I know what is required to perform at the top of ones game, esp. in Aug. and Sept. as the season finishes up.

{According to McNamee, Roger didn’t start taking HGH until his time with the Blue Jays. I can tell you that Roger was absolutely dominating right up to his last game with the Sox. I sat in the front row behind home plate in Detroit and watched him strike out 20 Tigers in Sept. of ’96. He was still throwing a ‘heavy’ 97mph in the 9th inning and had an untouchable split-finger fastball. I know this because I was charting next to advance scouts who were recording his velocities.}

He never needed steroids to “make himself better” as most people believe. I’m of the opinion that he probably took them in order to (at the time) heel his hamstring (a nagging injury he suffered for years); maybe prevent or repair other injuries that were not reported; or even give him a push into the final stages of the season i.e. the playoffs. We were tested for everything all year long – randomly – which allows me to believe this to be the case. Also, I saw many people take them for the same reasons listed above.

Being bulked up and muscular greatly restricts ones ability to pitch effectively over the long term. Being a good pitcher is not about looking good at the beach. Two different ‘ballgames.’ However, being injured and NOT pitching doesn’t do anything for anyone’s career. You’re only as good as your last game. Roger knows this, and is frantically trying to restore some kind of respect to his name.

It’s unfortunate but I would hate to see this end up like the mess Marion Jones was in….
I hope not – not for Roger – but for the game.

 

[Bob Rowshan]

Quote from Rearden Metal:

but Roger Clemens still shouldn't be lying his ass off to Congress, either.

"When all this happened, the former president of the United States found me in a deer blind in south Texas and expressed his concerns that this was unbelievable, and stay strong and hold your head up high,"

translation: because no matter what happens, you will be pardoned..

 

[flytiger]

Quote from ratboy88:

all hell is breaking loose with our economy and these idiots want to blather on about roger clemens? give me a break... they should be grilling goldman sachs and illegal naked shorters and media complicity. mortgage fraud and the federal reserve's crimes should dominate their focus. but we get roger clemens and britney spears' meltdown.

you people deserve the hell that is coming.


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I think that "hell" you speak of will engulf us all. Maybe we all deserve it. Because, even when you present hard evidence, you get ignored.