Is my career over?

[TruthSeeker247]

Quote from traderdragon:

Lets not just throw away the context shall we???

Which is a better approach, to becoming a great poker player?? Lets assume you and I want to be pro poker players and we each start with $50K.

My approach
-------------
Dont play poker until I fully understand the game
Read all the poker books
Start working on my "poker system" - my set of rules that give me a real edge
Play on simulators until I consistently win
Play against real opponents using play money on line
When im consistently winning, start playing online at a 50 cent table
Play until im consistently winning
Move up to a $1 table, if I continue to win, move to a $2 table
and so on until im playing on the big tables making big money

Your approach
-------------
Dive straight into the big tourneys, clueless about poker, with my $50K against big time pro's


Prediction: I will make money and become a great poker player
Prediciton: You will lose all your $50K very quickly - you will blow out many 50K accounts before you start getting decent

This is what I mean by you dont learn to trade by trading.
You are not ready to trade. You dont even have the most basic understanding of trading.
Its time to study and develop systems that are statistically sound before putting real money on the table.





Yes I trade, and I have more than 200K sitting in my account. I had a crap day today and made 2 grand.

You cant compare returns using massive leverage to returns using no leverage. If you dont have a system with very small drawdowns, using massive leverage will blow you out faster than anything.




Again, do some simple math, and lets see how realistic this is.
$1000 a day on 40K is 2.5% a day.
That works out to 8.9 MILLION in just 1 year. Pure hogwash.

Using massive leverage and super short term scalping style techniques, it possible to pull $1000 a day, but thats not scalable. These edges will run out one day and then you are dead with no income. I use several systems that will scale up just fine.

A trader with a 200K account making 20% a year works out to be $363 a day, assuming 220 trading days a year.

What I honestly believe is that you will never make $1000 off a 40K account. You are on the road to blowing out your accounts over and over again.

You are funny. I've made, in a trade, $4500 on a $15,000 account. Congratulations on you having $200,000 in your trading account. I might guess that your conservative style of trading will keep you at $200,000 for a while. Let's be honest: how long have you been at $200,000? That is better than losing it, I suppose. On the other hand, as a trader you can't be afraid to risk capital and step it up. Honestly, I'd rather be in the mix putting my money on the line than to be sitting on $200,000 which is making me only $363 / day. There has to be a fine line drawn between wealth preservation and wealth building. It seems as if I am on one side of that scale and you are on the other. You will probably last a lot longer but in the end I don't know how far you will progress. In 10 years you may still be sitting on that $200,000! Whereas I may have blown out a number of accounts and on my nth try became a millionaire. That is, if we continue to progress on our paths without making some changes. I think we both need to make some changes. I need some of you and you may need some of me....lol....too bad I'm not gay....lol...

You are right, I probably know as much about trading as you do. But I will learn; and it looks like I'll be learning the hard way. What can we do? Things very rarely go the way we want them to. The name of the game is survival. Right now I'm on the brink of failure.

 

[TruthSeeker247]

Quote from traderdragon:

No, all your losses have been due to trading without an edge against people with an edge.




Actually, its very very very very very unreasonable to think you will get it back at this point.

The only thing you can do right now is make sure you dont throw more away. That money is gone. You are not getting it back.
Accept that fact now before its too late.

For someone who expects $363 a day with a $200,000 account. Yes I'd say it is unreasonable. But don't forget....I'm not you...

 

[JMowery1987]

"I've made, in a trade, $4500 on a $15,000 account."


"In 10 years you may still be sitting on that $200,000! Whereas I may have blown out a number of accounts and on my nth try became a millionaire."

Your an idiot you know that?

You calling others idiots, and calling them names.

You can't handle criticism, like I said, your too good for the market.

Too bad the market has crushed you.

What is your excuse for that. You have nothing but answers, and you think you have the authority to challenge a trader who has been doing this for a long time, and claim you made 4500 on a single trade with a 15,000 account.

PLUS, you think that is a good thing?

You are money hungry...
When are you going to read what you are saying.

You are bragging and you haven't done shit.

 

[JMowery1987]

Can anyone PLEASE... tell me I'm wrong about this guy, all he talks about is becomming a millionaire and winning his money back.

 

[traderdragon]

I agree, you are not me. I can make far more than $363 a day on a 200K account. You on the other hand can only lose money with a 200K account as your track record has already proven.

Quote from TruthSeeker247:

For someone who expects $363 a day with a $200,000 account. Yes I'd say it is unreasonable. But don't forget....I'm not you...

 

[traderdragon]

Quote from TruthSeeker247:

You are funny. I've made, in a trade, $4500 on a $15,000 account.

The fact that you dont even realize that this means absolutely nothing speaks volumes. I can accomplish that flipping a coin.

Congratulations on you having $200,000 in your trading account. I might guess that your conservative style of trading will keep you at $200,000 for a while.

I never said I had 200K. I said I have more than 200K.
I also make between 20% and 50% a year on my account, if you want to call that conservative, be my guest. My account did not stay at 200K very long. Maybe a day

Let's be honest: how long have you been at $200,000? That is better than losing it, I suppose.

Back when I was at 200K, I stayed at 200K for about 1 day max.

[ On the other hand, as a trader you can't be afraid to risk capital and step it up. Honestly, I'd rather be in the mix putting my money on the line than to be sitting on $200,000 which is making me only $363 / day.

I never claimed this. It was hypothetical to show you how unrealistic your numbers were. I make much more than this.

There has to be a fine line drawn between wealth preservation and wealth building.

You clearly have no idea where that line is though.

It seems as if I am on one side of that scale and you are on the other.

No, I know where the scale is and where im on it. You havent even found the scale

You will probably last a lot longer but in the end I don't know how far you will progress. In 10 years you may still be sitting on that $200,000!

Not at 20-50% return a year a wont. Im well past the 200k mark, thanks.

Whereas I may have blown out a number of accounts and on my nth try became a millionaire.

Not a chance. Just more evidence you dont understand what you are doing.

That is, if we continue to progress on our paths without making some changes. I think we both need to make some changes. I need some of you and you may need some of me....lol....too bad I'm not gay....lol...

I will be making no changes. You need to learn to read better.
My systems are doing great and I make nice returns, unlike you.

You are right, I probably know as much about trading as you do.

Parden me son, but you dont know the first thing about trading. I consider myself an advanced trader, approaching expert/master. I have a track record to die for.

But I will learn; and it looks like I'll be learning the hard way. What can we do? Things very rarely go the way we want them to. The name of the game is survival. Right now I'm on the brink of failure.

Learning the hard way is a choice. You are choosing to throw away all your savings when there are clearly better ways. Highly irrational.
What is even worse is, you will throw all that money away and probably learn absolutely nothing about real trading.

 

[TruthSeeker247]

Quote from JMowery1987:

Can anyone PLEASE... tell me I'm wrong about this guy, all he talks about is becomming a millionaire and winning his money back.

look man, I don't know what your problem is but you clearly have an axe to grind with me. The goal is to become a consistently profitable trader. That's it. If I become a millionaire as a result than I will thank god and be happy. But I really just want to be consistently profitable. I just have to learn to cut my losses. I have found that most of trading is about money management. So you can be wrong most of the time and still make money if your winners are much greater than your losers. It doesn't matter what the current thinking in the investment world is; that this or that is "impossible" I'm just going to try to do the best that I can. I understand the bond market. I have been able to take profits from it consistently for months at a time. The money that I've lost has often been the result of a single day of trading. I made money all February and on the last day lost $13,000. From there began my steep decline. This was a money management issue. There's no way I would have lost that much if I had cut my losses short. My issue is with cutting losses. I need to learn how to cut my losses rather than let them ride. I let my profits ride long and I tend to also let my losses ride long. This is where my problem lies. I believe I have as good an understanding of the bond market as any other intermediate trader out there. The problem with me is not a lack of knowledge of how the bond market works but rather a lack of money management skills. I need to cut my losses....that is the bottom line.

I do thank you for your comments but please do not badger me and try to put me down. You don't know whether I will be a failure or success. You don't know what lies ahead in my future so I'd like it if you did not pass judgement on that. I see this experience as a necessary step toward ultimate success. Many people make $200,000 or even $2,000,000 and then they sit on it and don't do anything else with it. This is not the type of trader I wish to be. I want to put my money to work and never get lazy with my money.

I am focussed on making my money back. But I am realistic in my goal setting. I first look toward $9,000, then $10,000, just $500 a day at a time. I am not trying to make it all back in a single day.

I am different from other people. I truly believe that ther is nothing that is impossible. I set "unrealistic" goals. I've always been that way and that will never change.

 

[JMowery1987]

an axe to grind with me

Wrong, I'm trying to prevent you from dropping that axe directly to your skull.


Like I said... do it, don't tell us about it, the more you chat it up, the more everyone realizes your chances of failing are probably 99%.

You bring this upon yourself, you just don't listen to yourself.

Do it already, or quit complaining, I don't really care, I'm just trying to save you from a world of hurt.

You better realize that you need to quit this immediately before you hurt not only yourself, but others you know.

I'm just keeping it real with you.

You seem so determined to do this. You said you will never give up? That is an idiotic statement, some of the greatest people in the world knew when to cut their losses, to take their lickings and be done with it.

You are just digging yourself in a hole.

I gave you advice, and you ignored it.

But okay... I'm going to try as hard as possible to ignore this thread, but it is very hard to ignore failure when you see it coming thousands of miles away.

It's just really tough for me not to tell you that you will not make it in this game. You are a gambler, you have never traded in your life. You are determined to blow out your account so soon, because you believe the more accounts you blow up, the quicker it is you'll be rolling in that money and you will be a millionaire.

We can see it, why can't you?

If's, Woulda/Shoulda/Coulda, Maybe all keywords that don't cut it in this business.


Like I said before, DO IT ALREADY. You just invite people to come in here and point out your flaws, it's very tempting to jump on someone who just shows all the qualities of a failure in this business and none of the qualities of a successful trader.

You say you understand all this stuff everyone is telling you, but you have proven you have not, you think your better than the market, and I'm just letting you know, the market will hurt you.

You need to read a lot of books.

 

[TruthSeeker247]

Quote from traderdragon:

The fact that you dont even realize that this means absolutely nothing speaks volumes. I can accomplish that flipping a coin.


I never said I had 200K. I said I have more than 200K.
I also make between 20% and 50% a year on my account, if you want to call that conservative, be my guest. My account did not stay at 200K very long. Maybe a day




Back when I was at 200K, I stayed at 200K for about 1 day max.



I never claimed this. It was hypothetical to show you how unrealistic your numbers were. I make much more than this.




You clearly have no idea where that line is though.



No, I know where the scale is and where im on it. You havent even found the scale



Not at 20-50% return a year a wont. Im well past the 200k mark, thanks.



Not a chance. Just more evidence you dont understand what you are doing.



I will be making no changes. You need to learn to read better.
My systems are doing great and I make nice returns, unlike you.




Parden me son, but you dont know the first thing about trading. I consider myself an advanced trader, approaching expert/master. I have a track record to die for.




Learning the hard way is a choice. You are choosing to throw away all your savings when there are clearly better ways. Highly irrational.
What is even worse is, you will throw all that money away and probably learn absolutely nothing about real trading.

20-50% a year is not enough for a trader trading less than a million dollar account. You seem to be bound by what hedge fund managers can do with their multi billion dollar accounts. I never understood why people allow themselves to be bound by anything. You call it realism I call it slavery. I truly believe there is nothing that is impossible. if there is a boundary, let it define itself.....don't let hte world define it for you. So when people say that what I hope to accomplish in my account is unreasonable I will agree to disagree. But when people say it is impossible, I conlcude only that it would be impossible for them; if you think "failure" then you've already lost the battle.

can I ask you what was your initial deposit when opening your trading account. I'd like to know what seed was planted which grew into over $200,000.

Anyways, thanks for your comments

 

[traderdragon]

I just have to learn to cut my losses.

That is only one of your problems.

I have found that most of trading is about money management.

Again, only one of the big holes in your trading.

I understand the bond market.

No you dont. Your current track record proves this.

I have been able to take profits from it consistently for months at a time.

I trader flipping a coin can do the same thing.

The money that I've lost has often been the result of a single day of trading.

A sign of someone who doesnt know how to trade.

I made money all February and on the last day lost $13,000. From there began my steep decline.

Your luck ran out. This has nothing to do with skill or trading errors.

This was a money management issue.

It was more than that.

There's no way I would have lost that much if I had cut my losses short.

But you didnt because you dont have a system.

My issue is with cutting losses.

This is like a blind man who just wrecked his car for the 5th time claiming that the problem is he still hasnt learned how to drive a stick shift. Well that might be true, but there are bigger problems.

I need to learn how to cut my losses rather than let them ride. I let my profits ride long and I tend to also let my losses ride long.

More evidence you dont know what trading is about.

This is where my problem lies. I believe I have as good an understanding of the bond market as any other intermediate trader out there.

Your track record says otherwise.

The problem with me is not a lack of knowledge of how the bond market works but rather a lack of money management skills. I need to cut my losses....that is the bottom line.

Again, this is only 1 of your problems.

You don't know whether I will be a failure or success.

The odds are you will have less money 1 year from now. I give you 20:1.

You don't know what lies ahead in my future so I'd like it if you did not pass judgement on that. I see this experience as a necessary step toward ultimate success.

Thats just it. Its not necessary. You are gambling without a system.

I change my mind. You actually are more delusional than those horrible American Idol singers that swear they are great singers, even after 100 people told them they are really really bad