Is High Freq Trading a Bubble?

[jonnysharp]

So the massive CDO's and subprime mortgages underwritten to people who couldn't afford them then couldn't repay them back causing a disappearance of natural buyers had nothing to do with the increased volatility? it was the predatory algorithms of HFT shops that increased the volatility? even though their huge increase in popularity began at the turn of the century when volatility consistently decreased right up until 2007?

have you seen code of goldman's algorithms? otherwise your just speculating and have no hard evidence to support your claims, maybe your looking to blame your trading losses on someone else rather than yourself?

Have we all become that brainwashed by mainstream media? I mean this a classic politician/bankers ploy to shift the blame for their bad decisions, congress induced wall st to make loans to the less fortunate as early as 1999 and the bankers played along, now shit has hit the fan they look for a scapegoat, what more perfect that an industry that has been making good growth in profits? ah HFT you bad guys for making a buck when everyone else is losing, you guys must be stealing it from us! come on, haven't we seen this scenario over and over again, its called tall poppy syndrome. Are you mad because you can't play basketball as well as Kobe Bryant and he gets paid better?

 

[risktaker]

Dude, you're mixing apples & oranges here.
Of course the market decline had nothing to due with algorithms!

What I'm asserting to is INTRADAY volatility. The volatility of the first 30-60 minutes of trading each morning.
The volatility of every 10 minute segment of trading throughout a day. The volatility of the first 10 minutes of trading each day. The sudden jolts/spikes to trigger stops from small traders/investors only to be run over a few short minutes later.

That kind of anal manipulative volatility!

And I'll go 1 step further. "Exchanges" like BATS actually help destroy the market by paying other "shops" to trade there and collect order fees. Why? Because they're not a "natural" exchange. They're designed to destroy the NYSE in the process while encouraging people with these BS algorithms to create false volumes and trick others into trading.

Hey, if I want to play with slot machines, I'll go to 'Vegas. Screw these fake exchanges/leeches/liquidity providers/casinos!!!

Quote from jonnysharp:

So the massive CDO's and subprime mortgages underwritten to people who couldn't afford them then couldn't repay them back causing a disappearance of natural buyers had nothing to do with the increased volatility? it was the predatory algorithms of HFT shops that increased the volatility? even though their huge increase in popularity began at the turn of the century when volatility consistently decreased right up until 2007?

have you seen code of goldman's algorithms? otherwise your just speculating and have no hard evidence to support your claims, maybe your looking to blame your trading losses on someone else rather than yourself?

 

[psytrade]

Import Java.TopSecretHFTCode.jar

While we own the Market

Do

Try {

to trade as much on 0% interest in one trading session as the leverage will let us ...

Ride on the coattails of a PPT buy program...

Else

Sell all the shit you can

)

Throws exception

{

If we fuck up .... get a bail out

)

 

[jonnysharp]

ah risktaker, to put it simply, if you want to get screwed then use stop orders, if someone waived there money if front of your face and said ''hey take some if you want'' you would do the same, its really not that hard to place a limit order, the exact same type of order these algo's place.

and you saying they have increased intra day volatility, well I will have to agree to disagree there, plus if they were causing these sudden jolts/spikes all the time, that could easily be taken advantage of by enveloping.

 

[Eight]

Sooo HFT's are increasing volatility and intraday traders are supposed to get all up in arms about it.... LOL

 

[risktaker]

That's what some people thought when Markopolous questioned the math behind Madoff's "success".

But I know enough about algorithms to know that many of these are or ought to be illegal and are designed to suck investors' money pennies at a time but amounting to $$$billions a year.

Quote from jonnysharp:

have you seen code of goldman's algorithms? otherwise your just speculating and have no hard evidence to support your claims, maybe your looking to blame your trading losses on someone else rather than yourself?

 

[jonnysharp]

psytrade, you too can ride the coat tails of PPT program and trade on 0% intra day leverage, but no bailout, I agree bailout is a unfair advantage. But if your risk management is not stupid then you shouldn't require a bailout, just don't go loaning 300k to an unemployed person and you should be fine.

 

[risktaker]

Did I say I use stops?
But I see the games they play.

Quote from jonnysharp:

ah risktaker, to put it simply, if you want to get screwed then use stop orders, if someone waived there money if front of your face and said ''hey take some if you want'' you would do the same, its really not that hard to place a limit order, the exact same type of order these algo's place.

and you saying they have increased intra day volatility, well I will have to agree to disagree there, plus if they were causing these sudden jolts/spikes all the time, that could easily be taken advantage of by enveloping.

 

[risktaker]

Do you even know what volatility is?
There's "good" volatility and "bad" volatility. The volatility created as a result of these HFT algorithms is BS volatility. Totally manipulative.

Quote from Eight:

Sooo HFT's are increasing volatility and intraday traders are supposed to get all up in arms about it.... LOL

 

[Random.Capital]

Quote from risktaker:

And their profits come at the expense of small traders...

This is obviously impossible since small traders could get taken out in their entirety and not provide a meaningful amount of profit for Goldman.