Is High Freq Trading a Bubble?

risktaker · Sep 10, 2009

You're damn right!

I see other markets in others countries with a LOT less manipulation & thievery yet their bid/ask spread is a little wider at the open, but so what?

These leeches just here just screw with you all fu^&ing day!

That's why I've reduced my volume by 80% in the last year here. Screw this shit.

Quote from telience:

On a stock with a small market cap, how can we possibly have that accurate a concept of its value? I don't think anyone can, really, so they develop an artificial concept of value by manipulating the stock price and then trading a tight spread around that.

It's a fundamental problem.

d138 · Sep 10, 2009

Quote from GuyFawkes:
I really cant see the point in arguing about liquidity.
....
Will anything be done about them then? Short of a revolution, probably not.

While I disagree with your opinion, I should admit that you know what you are talking about

I will just repeat my point, even if your are right that HF guys a picking pennies in front of the steam roller of the mutual funds, mutual funds do benefit from it at the end of the day. Now, they pay a penny to a HF box, that used to pay 1/16 of a dollar to the nyse specialist.

risktaker · Sep 10, 2009

What are you talking about? Who's paying a penny & why?

Quote from d138:

Now, they pay a penny to a HF box, that used to pay 1/16 of a dollar to the nyse specialist.

d138 · Sep 11, 2009

I was referring to this:

Quote from GuyFawkes:

They make their money nickel and dimeing the pension funds and their like, making them pay up a cent or two every time they want to buy.

kaciara · Sep 15, 2009

good 3d

trader56 · Sep 16, 2009

Another BS thread.

Let's blame market makers. specialists, the Hybrid, program trading, algos, institutions, manipulators, decimalization, HFT, flashes, and on and on and on... Since most here were in diapers when the '87 Crash came, you don't remember the blame game played over that one.

These things never change - people who can't trade, whether through lack of experince, lack of brains, lack of discipline, no solid methodolgy, no risk control or some combination of all, will always be looking for somone else to blame rather than take responsiblilty for their actions.

And since I doubt anyone here works for houses like GS, speculating as to what they may or may not do is an utter waste of time...much like almost every second I allow myself to get sucked into reading something on ET.

risktaker · Sep 16, 2009

Maybe if you understood how these these scammers are manipulating the market, you'd criticise less.
Unless it's convenient for you to tell others everything's peachy.

Quote from trader56:

Another BS thread.

Let's blame market makers. specialists, the Hybrid, program trading, algos, institutions, manipulators, decimalization, HFT, flashes, and on and on and on... Since most here were in diapers when the '87 Crash came, you don't remember the blame game played over that one.

These things never change - people who can't trade, whether through lack of experince, lack of brains, lack of discipline, no solid methodolgy, no risk control or some combination of all, will always be looking for somone else to blame rather than take responsiblilty for their actions.

And since I doubt anyone here works for houses like GS, speculating as to what they may or may not do is an utter waste of time...much like almost every second I allow myself to get sucked into reading something on ET.

trader56 · Sep 16, 2009

LOL!

You don't know- this is just guesswork on your part as you have no way to back any of this up. You don't work for GS or any of the rest, you simply see something and come up with one, unprovable explaination that suits you out of a host of possibilites.

My guess is that like so many here, you don't even trade.

kaciara · Sep 21, 2009

Quote from trader56:

Another BS thread.

Let's blame market makers. specialists, the Hybrid, program trading, algos, institutions, manipulators, decimalization, HFT, flashes, and on and on and on... Since most here were in diapers when the '87 Crash came, you don't remember the blame game played over that one.

These things never change - people who can't trade, whether through lack of experince, lack of brains, lack of discipline, no solid methodolgy, no risk control or some combination of all, will always be looking for somone else to blame rather than take responsiblilty for their actions.

And since I doubt anyone here works for houses like GS, speculating as to what they may or may not do is an utter waste of time...much like almost every second I allow myself to get sucked into reading something on ET.

http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2009/2009-201.htm

zdreg · Sep 21, 2009

Quote from risktaker:

Dude, you're mixing apples & oranges here.
Of course the market decline had nothing to due with algorithms!

What I'm asserting to is INTRADAY volatility. The volatility of the first 30-60 minutes of trading each morning.
The volatility of every 10 minute segment of trading throughout a day. The volatility of the first 10 minutes of trading each day. The sudden jolts/spikes to trigger stops from small traders/investors only to be run over a few short minutes later.

That kind of anal manipulative volatility!

And I'll go 1 step further. "Exchanges" like BATS actually help destroy the market by paying other "shops" to trade there and collect order fees. Why? Because they're not a "natural" exchange. They're designed to destroy the NYSE in the process while encouraging people with these BS algorithms to create false volumes and trick others into trading.

Hey, if I want to play with slot machines, I'll go to 'Vegas. Screw these fake exchanges/leeches/liquidity

providers/casinos!!!

widen your stops.