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is facebook founder a traitor?
- Thread starter Free Thinker
- Start date
Quote from zboy2854A:
It still doesn't mean he is bound to stay in the United States or remain a U.S. citizen simply by virtue of what the legal system afforded him in the past. If that were the case, then we should have a system where when someone wins a legal financial judgment, a part of it goes directly to the court right then and there.
And as others have pointed out, it's not as if he isn't giving something up in return, namely the right to reside here and take any further advantage of the amenities the U.S. provides its citizens. Some here have even said that in and of itself is a pretty steep price to pay.
Again, nothing he has done is illegal in the slightest. You are free to find it personally distasteful, but I find those who have committed and gotten away with actual illegal financial acts far more distasteful than this. This is a tempest in a teapot.
You're confusing legality with morality. I don't think anyone is arguing that what he did is or should be illegal. If anyone is, you can exclude me from that set of people.
That doesn't mean he isn't a parasite, especially when you consider he's here because his dad wanted to save his life.
Which is why, as pointed out earlier, when he applies to come back to the US in the future, should he do so, his request will be put at the bottom of the pile. As it should be.
Quote from trefoil:
You're confusing legality with morality. I don't think anyone is arguing that what he did is or should be illegal. If anyone is, you can exclude me from that set of people.
That doesn't mean he isn't a parasite, especially when you consider he's here because his dad wanted to save his life.
And as logic_man already pointed out above, Saverin already paid for the U.S. benefits and amenities he received while a citizen here, therefore he owes no further taxes to the U.S. system since he will no longer be making use of its amenities and benefits, and therefore he cannot be considered a parasite.
Again, this is the reason every country except the U.S. and North Korea doesn't tax their citizens any further if they don't live in the actual country. If you're not continuing to make use of the country's resources and amenities now and into the future, you are not required to pay any further for them now or into the future either.
So actually, what Saverin did is not only not illegal, it's also not immoral either.
His debt to the US will expire when he does. You forget why his dad came here.
As for it not being immoral even besides that, you and I will have to differ on that. Besides which, as I pointed out before, giving up US citizenship so you can make a little more on what is right now a purely hypothetical gain is, quite simply, nuts.
As for it not being immoral even besides that, you and I will have to differ on that. Besides which, as I pointed out before, giving up US citizenship so you can make a little more on what is right now a purely hypothetical gain is, quite simply, nuts.
Quote from trefoil:
His debt to the US will expire when he does. You forget why his dad came here.
Umm, no. He owes no further debt to any country in particular. He paid taxes like every other citizen while he was a citizen living here. Period. End of story.
If I'm drowning and you pull me out of the water, does that make me your indentured servant for the rest of my life? Nope.
Quote from zboy2854A:
Umm, no. He owes no further debt to any country in particular. He paid taxes like every other citizen while he was a citizen living here. Period. End of story.
If I'm drowning and you pull me out of the water, does that make me your indentured servant for the rest of my life? Nope.
No, but I'd at least expect a present on my birthday, I hope.
He hasn't lived or worked in the states for over 3 years.
He is nothing more than an original investor in FB... Not a director, employee or anything more then a minority shareholder contractually tied up. He's had to sue to enforce his investment rights...
The Daddy story is fictional hear say and not fact... Exactly what do you deem to be fair for those that want to cash in their chips and leave, retire or seek different levels of freedom and new opportunities outside of our global financial surveillance and taxation system? What if he in principle no longer wishes to be an indentured tax slave of the USA?
Why not apply your same logic to all of the foreign companies that skirt immigration all together and set up shop here under a secret veil of shell corporations? I would argue these foreign firms and especially foreign banks derive more benefits and use more resources than any individuals or domestic corps.
Hell this guy is essentially self deporting as suggested by Romney. Model case for Romney's comprehensive immigration plan. Immigrants... Take your cash and leave...
On a serious note: US Citizenship restricts opportunities abroad. The swiss and many brokerages are not permitting US citizens to even open accounts. US is enacted anti-money laundering laws so onerous to comply with that most choose to walk away from US investors. Those without dual citizenship or some alternate locale are locked in.
"Saverin spokesman Tom Goodman said Sunday his renunciation was prompted not by tax considerations but by U.S. rules that make it more difficult for U.S. citizens to live and invest overseas.
âU.S. citizens are severely restricted as to what they can invest in and where they can maintain accounts,â said spokesman Tom Goodman. âMany foreign funds and banks wonât accept Americans. This was a financial rather than a tax motive.â
Itâs true many U.S. expats complain that American rules are making life more difficult for them. Those include the U.S. tax systemâs global reach (many countries tax based on residency); foreign bank account reporting rules; and the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), which requires foreign financial institutions to start reporting to the IRS on U.S. citizensâ accounts.
Expats say as a result of all the regulations, some foreign banks are dumping more U.S. customers. Mr. Goodman also cited FATCA, among other rules, as a problem for Mr. Saverin."
He is nothing more than an original investor in FB... Not a director, employee or anything more then a minority shareholder contractually tied up. He's had to sue to enforce his investment rights...
The Daddy story is fictional hear say and not fact... Exactly what do you deem to be fair for those that want to cash in their chips and leave, retire or seek different levels of freedom and new opportunities outside of our global financial surveillance and taxation system? What if he in principle no longer wishes to be an indentured tax slave of the USA?
Why not apply your same logic to all of the foreign companies that skirt immigration all together and set up shop here under a secret veil of shell corporations? I would argue these foreign firms and especially foreign banks derive more benefits and use more resources than any individuals or domestic corps.
Hell this guy is essentially self deporting as suggested by Romney. Model case for Romney's comprehensive immigration plan. Immigrants... Take your cash and leave...
On a serious note: US Citizenship restricts opportunities abroad. The swiss and many brokerages are not permitting US citizens to even open accounts. US is enacted anti-money laundering laws so onerous to comply with that most choose to walk away from US investors. Those without dual citizenship or some alternate locale are locked in.
"Saverin spokesman Tom Goodman said Sunday his renunciation was prompted not by tax considerations but by U.S. rules that make it more difficult for U.S. citizens to live and invest overseas.
âU.S. citizens are severely restricted as to what they can invest in and where they can maintain accounts,â said spokesman Tom Goodman. âMany foreign funds and banks wonât accept Americans. This was a financial rather than a tax motive.â
Itâs true many U.S. expats complain that American rules are making life more difficult for them. Those include the U.S. tax systemâs global reach (many countries tax based on residency); foreign bank account reporting rules; and the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), which requires foreign financial institutions to start reporting to the IRS on U.S. citizensâ accounts.
Expats say as a result of all the regulations, some foreign banks are dumping more U.S. customers. Mr. Goodman also cited FATCA, among other rules, as a problem for Mr. Saverin."
Quote from trefoil:
His debt to the US will expire when he does. You forget why his dad came here.
As for it not being immoral even besides that, you and I will have to differ on that. Besides which, as I pointed out before, giving up US citizenship so you can make a little more on what is right now a purely hypothetical gain is, quite simply, nuts.
Quote from Free Thinker:
in order for a business to succeed you need a lot of things. you need infrastructure ,security, an educated workforce, a court system to enforce contract law, patent protection, access to capital. all of this is provided at a cost to the public in the us. so now he wants to move to Singapore. how far do you think he would have made it if he had attempted to start a business like that in Singapore?
I think we as a country have a right to expect some payback for his ability to succeed. really he is screwing the other taxpayers
And you're in a trading forum... +1 for hypocrisy...
Quote from billyjoerob:
So Saverin never wants to live in the US for more than 90 days? Once you renounce, you can't reapply. And I don't know whether you can gain permanent residency ie a green card, but it doesn't make sense to offer permanent residency to renouncers. And what if he marries a US citizen? Could you really renounce and then turn right around and marry a US citizen and get a green card? That doesn't make sense either.
So Saverin now cannot live in the US. Where is he going to live? Brazil? Singapore? Monaco? This sounds like something he will regret. Malibu is a nice play to live. So is Manhattan. Singapore is not so much fun. The marginal value of an extra $billion is low. The value of being able to live in the country you were raised, the most powerful country in the world, and WHERE YOUR FAMILY LIVES, is high. This is a stupid move he will come to regret.
I think you should look at the map of the world. Things have changed since the 16th century where you presumably live. There are countries far suited for a better quality of life than the US.
Just sayin...
Quote from babutime:
I think you should look at the map of the world. Things have changed since the 16th century where you presumably live. There are countries far suited for a better quality of life than the US.
Just sayin...
Yes, it's usually pretty easy to spot folks who haven't travelled the rest of the world much.