Its a criminal state without the rule of law and will never be able to float it's currency.
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Is China actually bankrupt?
- Thread starter bearice
- Start date
Quote from krazykarl:
What you are failing to realize is that China's economic power comes from production, not design. As China's production industry becomes more mature and adopts things like environmental regulations, labor laws, etc. their costs are going to increase causing the value they passed along to foreign companies to evaporate. The clock on China is ticking and time is running out on the value advantage they provide.
That's a long way off. The Chinese don't recognize human rights outside private property. There's no due process afforded to citizens, let alone the judicial infrastructure to execute it. The Communist Party would have to unilaterally amend the Constitution to create the necessary (impartial) court system, plus incorporate a greater recognition of human rights, then pass labor and environmental laws - they know - would cut their own throat in the global marketplace. The PRC Government #1 mandate is power monopoly of the State. The best vehicle to accomplish that, in their eyes, is full employment. They're not about to rock the boat anytime soon. Look at Russia. In many respects, still an environmental wasteland for the same reasons.
Quote from achilles28:
That's a long way off. The Chinese don't recognize human rights outside private property. There's no due process afforded to citizens, let alone the judicial infrastructure to execute it. The Communist Party would have to unilaterally amend the Constitution to create the necessary (impartial) court system, plus incorporate a greater recognition of human rights, then pass labor and environmental laws - they know - would cut their own throat in the global marketplace. The PRC Government #1 mandate is power monopoly of the State. The best vehicle to accomplish that, in their eyes, is full employment. They're not about to rock the boat anytime soon. Look at Russia. In many respects, still an environmental wasteland for the same reasons.
I agree - but by them not doing these things will cause companies to stop doing business with china. The recent google flap is just one example. Another is companies in China stealing IP from foreign companies and being allowed to continue doing so.
Russia was a powerful economy in the 60s and 70s as China is today. I agree, look what happened. As I said a few posts back I've heard this song before.
Google? What are you talking about? Google sneaked away like a wounded dog instead of negotiating and defending their stance. Nobody ever said that you cannot get hurt when doing business, or that things always are fair.
Were Americans fair when Japan bought up every last inch of land in California during the Japanese bubble? Americans became extremely hostile towards Japanese and Japanese businesses for no apparent reason but jealousy and fear. Lawmakers threatened retaliation, read up on that if you dont know.
Google knew what they get into. Censorship and control over the media business by state controlled organs. It is all to understandable that China does not want to sell out its crown jewels but gives an (sometimes unfair) advantage to local players such as Baidu. Google seems to be having issues to handle it. Is it ethical what China did to Google? Hell, no, and I never pretend it was. But this IS business not personal. Do you REALLY believe Google has become the king of ethics overnight? Do you really think the CEO could not sleep anymore because of the Falung Gong censorship? Dont make me laugh.
Google retreated because they lost the war against Baidu in China and could not compete on an equal footing in the adds business anymore. But it must sound great to some idiots to read in the papers Google pulled out because they wanted to do the "right thing".
-> Back to the point though: China is apparently attractive enough despite all those hurdles otherwise you would not have all those foreign companies kissing ass in China. Its the tremendous domestic market that foreign firms are eyeballing NOT the manufacturing capabilities. Someone earlier correctly pointed out that this advantage will shift over time. What does not go away but only grows stronger is the wealth and consumer spending of the domestic Chinese economy. Volkswagen, the second largest car maker in the world (maybe soon the biggest after Toyota stumbled) already officially declared China to become its most important market in the world in terms of sales and PROFIT. Hear this, not just just sales but profit, more important than its own domestic German market. This is one out of countless examples. That is the reason why companies stick around no matter how they treated. It does not make ANY business sense for Google to leave this market, and I think it pretty much surprised everyone in Washington, Wall Street, and Mountain View as well. Isnt it funny how Google overnight has turned from the hated/naughty kid into the one everyone wants to be around? I guess flies go everywhere there is stinking garbage, carcasses, and shit lying around.
Were Americans fair when Japan bought up every last inch of land in California during the Japanese bubble? Americans became extremely hostile towards Japanese and Japanese businesses for no apparent reason but jealousy and fear. Lawmakers threatened retaliation, read up on that if you dont know.
Google knew what they get into. Censorship and control over the media business by state controlled organs. It is all to understandable that China does not want to sell out its crown jewels but gives an (sometimes unfair) advantage to local players such as Baidu. Google seems to be having issues to handle it. Is it ethical what China did to Google? Hell, no, and I never pretend it was. But this IS business not personal. Do you REALLY believe Google has become the king of ethics overnight? Do you really think the CEO could not sleep anymore because of the Falung Gong censorship? Dont make me laugh.
Google retreated because they lost the war against Baidu in China and could not compete on an equal footing in the adds business anymore. But it must sound great to some idiots to read in the papers Google pulled out because they wanted to do the "right thing".
-> Back to the point though: China is apparently attractive enough despite all those hurdles otherwise you would not have all those foreign companies kissing ass in China. Its the tremendous domestic market that foreign firms are eyeballing NOT the manufacturing capabilities. Someone earlier correctly pointed out that this advantage will shift over time. What does not go away but only grows stronger is the wealth and consumer spending of the domestic Chinese economy. Volkswagen, the second largest car maker in the world (maybe soon the biggest after Toyota stumbled) already officially declared China to become its most important market in the world in terms of sales and PROFIT. Hear this, not just just sales but profit, more important than its own domestic German market. This is one out of countless examples. That is the reason why companies stick around no matter how they treated. It does not make ANY business sense for Google to leave this market, and I think it pretty much surprised everyone in Washington, Wall Street, and Mountain View as well. Isnt it funny how Google overnight has turned from the hated/naughty kid into the one everyone wants to be around? I guess flies go everywhere there is stinking garbage, carcasses, and shit lying around.
Quote from krazykarl:
I agree - but by them not doing these things will cause companies to stop doing business with china. The recent google flap is just one example. Another is companies in China stealing IP from foreign companies and being allowed to continue doing so.
Russia was a powerful economy in the 60s and 70s as China is today. I agree, look what happened. As I said a few posts back I've heard this song before.
Google is totally in bed with the NSA. It's a joke they would even complain about China's business ethics when theirs don't even exist.