Is Bush the most socialist President in the history of the USA?

[Gringinho]

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

I see Palin as my future. Seriously. She's hated by those I most want to defeat......

You do NOT want to defeat the integrity of the system and your personal freedom. That is ultimately contradictory and self-destructive.

McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden is not the answer ...
The answer and way ahead is a direct democracy - a democracy free of corruption.

Your enemy's enemy - is NOT your friend.
Your friend is integrity and trust.
That is how you get sustainable development and growth in any system - Laissez-faire.
If you ARE libertarian - then you accept the non-aggression principle.
Otherwise - you are NOT libertarian - and your reasoning will fall on itself.
(unless you can make up a whole different and new philosophic belief system - kinda hard...)


Understand this:
If YOU align yourself in a hierarchy - a capitalist hierarchy...
Then YOU are aligned to perpetuating the support for whoever is towards the top - those over you.
That means you will NEVER be free - but always have your hands tied.
You strive in the rat race and tread the mill forever...
You would support the elite system - because you are trying to grow into one of the elites...
And if you do this - you can only blame YOURSELF for the recent crisis...

Sustainable growth is NOT through a hierarchical pyramid scheme!!!
Sustainable development and growth happens in an ecosystem of nature - with trust and integrity.

If you opt for anything else than integral trust - you are just a drooling zombie perpetuating your sedated state in society.
If you regularly watch Cheech & Chong movies and smoke a pipe with friends - I understand, though...
There is a REASON why we call smokers "no-stick teflonic brains"...

But please contribute by getting your kids through their education.
Don't let THEIR future go up in smoke!

 

[bigarrow]

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

I see Palin as my future. Seriously. She's hated by those I most want to defeat......

I don't know how you can think that, I really don't. We don't know who the hell she is or what she thinks. We have no clue at how she will react under pressure or in a crisis. All we hear is her parroting the same old talking points we hear over and over again. From listening to her she seems a little slow, but that could just be her being told not to say too much and the fact that she has much to learn. She may be a brain but so far she hasn't showed it. The only thing for certain about Palin is she is an unknown.

 

[Gringinho]

Anyone seeing themselves as "just part of the food chain" are in practical terms supporting the very structure of social and economic Darwianism.

You will always distrust others.
You will always have the fluctuation between crisis - waves of warring factions.


Unless you understand where you are in society - you can never think that you are "free".
If you accept living in a hierarchical pyramid scheme - then you live in servitude of those above you.
In a Darwinian society - corruption and bias IS the system itself.
You get bungholed just as easily as anyone else - and NEVER can you trust ANYONE.

In a Darwinian society and economy - there IS NO Laissez-faire;
it is pure bias and influence - AUTHORITARIAN and NO DEMOCRACY.
There is NO hope for the non-aggression principle - it would be folly to even HOPE for it...
UNLESS you can get integrity and trust like I mentioned,
you will always get eaten by a larger or stronger fish.

This is not socialism - it is purely free individuality - but by constructing trust-structures and protecting their integrity.
Or to be more accurate - this is PURE INTEGRITY AND TRUST itself - as opposed to bias and corruption.

Is is THAT simple...
Think in terms of systems...
Well - actually - START thinking.

 

[BlindLemonBoosh]

Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

I see Palin as my future. Seriously. She's hated by those I most want to defeat......

"The enemy of my enemies is my friend"? You seriously need to get beyond that model of decision making.

 

[Avid_Consumer]

Quote from a_person:

while free marketeers kept screaming that the market would solve all problems. Well, the market did not.

the market would (in the long run) if the overleveraged banks and households were simply allowed to fail.

 

[Gringinho]

Quote from Avid_Consumer:

the market would (in the long run) if the overleveraged banks and households were simply allowed to fail.

And that is how conservatism and slightly liberalism works ...
at least they are not greedy, aggressive, radical maniacs like the Neocons.

I prefer more effective clear-cut systems not open to corruption.

 

[a_person]

Quote from Avid_Consumer:

the market would (in the long run) if the overleveraged banks and households were simply allowed to fail.

Markets don't solve problems, markets find equilibriums (between supply and demand) which may or may not solve the underlying problem. The concept of solving an economic crisis means averting and preventing economic calamities affecting the lives of hundreds of millions of people and the market has failed in this respect.

Claiming that the market would in the long run solve the problem by allowing banks/households to fail (and causing an unavoidable financial meltdown and likely second great depression in the process) is like claiming that the best solution to cancer is to let it grow until it kills the body it live in and subsequently kills itself. In both cases the "solution" kinda defeats the purpose.

 

[Vista]

Quote from Debaser82:

It's not socialist, it's fascist.

Correct, although I'm not calling Bush a Fascist.

http://www.libertymaven.com/2008/02/21/election-2008-fascism-vs-socialism/913/

 

[Avid_Consumer]

Quote from a_person:

Markets don't solve problems, markets find equilibriums (between supply and demand) which may or may not solve the underlying problem. The concept of solving an economic crisis means averting and preventing economic calamities affecting the lives of hundreds of millions of people and the market has failed in this respect.

Claiming that the market would in the long run solve the problem by allowing banks/households to fail (and causing an unavoidable financial meltdown and likely second great depression in the process) is like claiming that the best solution to cancer is to let it grow until it kills the body it live in and subsequently kills itself. In both cases the "solution" kinda defeats the purpose.

personally i think that's just one price of a truly free market system. failure has to be allowed on any scale.

yes, gs et al would go under and potentially tank the economy for several years. In the next cycle, nobody would take their current level of risk, knowing full well that there's no backstop.

The free market simply can't function if certain players have a backstop. They'll take levels of risk they'd never consider in a free system, jeopardizing more than just themselves in the process.

As far as the analogy to cancer goes, I don't see the similarity between one persons lifecycle, and an entire global market system. As long as humans exist, trading and commerce will happen. Letting banks and households fail certainly doesn't "kill" economics like cancer does a single person.

 

[Gringinho]

Quote from a_person:

Markets don't solve problems, markets find equilibriums (between supply and demand) which may or may not solve the underlying problem.
...

Just because YOU claim a view - doesn't mean we all need to accept it... and that goes for my statements too - people should learn to use their brains for critical thinking. We can actually change social and economic systems... they are not "divine systems".

And you obviously never read anything I wrote about checking out Systems intelligence...
Well - it may be intelligible to some others, even though you don't get it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_intelligence

Read it, maybe you can educate yourself - if there is any space left from all the indoctrination and propaganda...

Otherwise - here is something that you already know and like - let's say it won't "challenge your intelligence"...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_science


The corrupt pieces should not only be cut out - they should be burned at the stakes - fed to the lions etc.