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is America's future in any better shape than Europe?
- Thread starter zdreg
- Start date
Quote from GVglobal limited:
No where America is going to do better where the situation has become more worse in US than in Europe. Atleast there is a hope in Europe that this recession era will come to an end in the next four year with complete stability but for US
uh ?!? Care to explain how you reached those conclusions ?
There is something to that, I am inclined to believe. My personal observation, from my travels in other countries, is that freedom and security are quite closely linked in much the same way that let's say risk and reward are linked. But I don't see personal freedoms linked very strongly to socialism as you've implied, nor do I see socialism necessarily reducing opportunity. Socialism may have more to do with incentives than opportunity. I have spent time in countries more socialist than the U.S., and what country isn't? I have found in some of these countries palpably more personal freedom than in the U.S., even though these countries were also significantly more socialist than the U.S.Quote from clacy:
The youth needs to wake up. Socialism/statism kills opportunity.
If you want "fairness" and "security" provided by the state, they will rip the heart out of your freedoms and take away opportunity in the pursuit of "fairness" and "security".
I am toying with the idea that what we call corporatism and freedom are inversely linked. (Talking about personal freedom here.) Haven't enough information to make up my mind. But I believe that it is possibly that the pernicious form of capitalism we call corporatism is very detrimental to personal freedom -- I think I'm likely right about that, but what I'm not very certain about is whether it is a necessary condition of corporatism. That is the part i'm wrestling with.
I'm seriously exploring these ideas, and I think Wilson's later ideas are likely correct, and Samuelson is incorrect. Understanding these things hinges on understanding human nature, our genetic makeup, and our instincts. I'm going to be talking about these things over the Thanksgiving Holiday with a close friend who is a student of Wilson's (literally) and also intimate with Samuelson's ideas. I may come back with some new insight. There is some very new ideas that I want to explore.
Quote from piezoe:
There is something to that, I am inclined to believe. My personal observation, from my travels in other countries, is that freedom and security are quite closely linked in much the same way that let's say risk and reward are linked. But I don't see personal freedoms linked very strongly to socialism as you've implied, nor do I see socialism necessarily reducing opportunity. Socialism may have more to do with incentives than opportunity. I have spent time in countries more socialist than the U.S., and what country isn't? I have found in some of these countries palpably more personal freedom than in the U.S., even though these countries were also significantly more socialist than the U.S.
I am toying with the idea that what we call corporatism and freedom are inversely linked. (Talking about personal freedom here.) Haven't enough information to make up my mind. But I believe that it is possibly that the pernicious form of capitalism we call corporatism is very detrimental to personal freedom -- I think I'm likely right about that, but what I'm not very certain about is whether it is a necessary condition of corporatism. That is the part i'm wrestling with.
I'm seriously exploring these ideas, and I think Wilson's later ideas are likely correct, and Samuelson is incorrect. Understanding these things hinges on understanding human nature, our genetic makeup, and our instincts. I'm going to be talking about these things over the Thanksgiving Holiday with a close friend who is a student of Wilson's (literally) and also intimate with Samuelson's ideas. I may come back with some new insight. There is some very new ideas that I want to explore.
A very thoughtful post that I appreciate.
I don't believe that freedom and security are compromised by the jaundiced American definition of socialism.
On the contrary, the right wing is doing more damage to freedom than anyone else could.
Quote from piezoe:
There is something to that, I am inclined to believe. My personal observation, from my travels in other countries, is that freedom and security are quite closely linked in much the same way that let's say risk and reward are linked. But I don't see personal freedoms linked very strongly to socialism as you've implied, nor do I see socialism necessarily reducing opportunity. Socialism may have more to do with incentives than opportunity. I have spent time in countries more socialist than the U.S., and what country isn't? I have found in some of these countries palpably more personal freedom than in the U.S., even though these countries were also significantly more socialist than the U.S.
I am toying with the idea that what we call corporatism and freedom are inversely linked. (Talking about personal freedom here.) Haven't enough information to make up my mind. But I believe that it is possibly that the pernicious form of capitalism we call corporatism is very detrimental to personal freedom -- I think I'm likely right about that, but what I'm not very certain about is whether it is a necessary condition of corporatism. That is the part i'm wrestling with.
I'm seriously exploring these ideas, and I think Wilson's later ideas are likely correct, and Samuelson is incorrect. Understanding these things hinges on understanding human nature, our genetic makeup, and our instincts. I'm going to be talking about these things over the Thanksgiving Holiday with a close friend who is a student of Wilson's (literally) and also intimate with Samuelson's ideas. I may come back with some new insight. There is some very new ideas that I want to explore. [/QUOTe
corporatism is a tool of socialists to disguise their identity and motives.
Quote from zdreg:
Quote from piezoe:
There is something to that, I am inclined to believe. My personal observation, from my travels in other countries, is that freedom and security are quite closely linked in much the same way that let's say risk and reward are linked. But I don't see personal freedoms linked very strongly to socialism as you've implied, nor do I see socialism necessarily reducing opportunity. Socialism may have more to do with incentives than opportunity. I have spent time in countries more socialist than the U.S., and what country isn't? I have found in some of these countries palpably more personal freedom than in the U.S., even though these countries were also significantly more socialist than the U.S.
I am toying with the idea that what we call corporatism and freedom are inversely linked. (Talking about personal freedom here.) Haven't enough information to make up my mind. But I believe that it is possibly that the pernicious form of capitalism we call corporatism is very detrimental to personal freedom -- I think I'm likely right about that, but what I'm not very certain about is whether it is a necessary condition of corporatism. That is the part i'm wrestling with.
I'm seriously exploring these ideas, and I think Wilson's later ideas are likely correct, and Samuelson is incorrect. Understanding these things hinges on understanding human nature, our genetic makeup, and our instincts. I'm going to be talking about these things over the Thanksgiving Holiday with a close friend who is a student of Wilson's (literally) and also intimate with Samuelson's ideas. I may come back with some new insight. There is some very new ideas that I want to explore.
corporatism is a tool of socialists to disguise their identity and motives.
When you are bored and have time on your hands, compile 2 lists of words that elicit a knee jerk reaction with, 1) Americans, and 2) North Koreans.
Compare and contrast the difference, as we were asked to do in secondary school.
P.S. My 2 best friends are Yanks and I have had this discussion with them. Both have lived outside the States for over 10 years (20 for one), one has travelled the world on business, the other travels on vacation. Trust me, your Pavlovian reaction to keywords demonstrates more similarities than differences.
Quote from justrading:
corporatism is a tool of socialists to disguise their identity and motives.
When you are bored and have time on your hands, compile 2 lists of words that elicit a knee jerk reaction with, 1) Americans, and 2) North Koreans.
Compare and contrast the difference, as we were asked to do in secondary school.
P.S. My 2 best friends are Yanks and I have had this discussion with them. Both have lived outside the States for over 10 years (20 for one), one has travelled the world on business, the other travels on vacation. Trust me, your Pavlovian reaction to keywords demonstrates more similarities than differences. [/B][/QUOTE]
it sounds good if my reactions are the same as your yank friends. then we can all be friends. it is a lucky day for me
Yeah I saw you deleted your response, but no matter.
No my friend, we do not all have to be like minded and share common opinions. I am a very firm believer that diversity in thought is precious.
I am simply trying to point out that these shibboleths should be scrutinised. You are happy to challenge accepted thinking, I simply invite you to do more of the same.
No my friend, we do not all have to be like minded and share common opinions. I am a very firm believer that diversity in thought is precious.
I am simply trying to point out that these shibboleths should be scrutinised. You are happy to challenge accepted thinking, I simply invite you to do more of the same.