Is active trading a viable job for an individual?

[Overnight]

I hate to get in the middle of this three-way conversation between JSOP, jinxu and 312, but I just need to point this out JSOP...

..you DO however have a duty to work well, to co-operate and uphold an amicable working (NOT PERSONAL) relationship with your supervisor; that is actually in pretty much all of the job description or stated in your Employee Handbook which nobody cares to read...

No, that is not true on many levels.

A.) Not every company has "an employee handbook". There are companies out there besides huge corporate "McDonalds" with no need for such things.

B.) You have no duty at all to do anything, except what the company wishes you to do. This is usually to help the company provide greater return for it's stakeholders.

C.) Upholding an amicable relationship with a supervisor is the least of companies' worker worries, and the company most likely doesn't care about that. They want you to be efficient in your job, not efficient in your water-cooler blather with the immediate boss. Most supervisors are assholes, which is why they are supervisors. Perhaps you have not worked in enough jobs to know that the middle managers are the weakest links in any company chain, and the ones most likely to get the axe when the sheet hits the fan? Supervisors are dead weight, and a waste of materiel.

P.S. D.) If I read a rider in my employment contract that one of my duties was to appease my supervisor, and to maintain a "good" relationship with him/her? I'd bail the hell out of that room, and that building, and that idea of working for a firm like that. Seriously? My duty is to kiss my boss's ass? Umm, no? Hellooooo??!

 

[vincentnyc]

Hi all. I'm new to the board. This is my first post.

I've been in IT for 25 years. I may be ready for a change. What are the odds of an old dog like me (46) actually making a living as an active trader? I know there are tons of variables and this is a borderline stupid question, but let me provide a bit more info about myself...

I have a good intellect - not in MENSA mind you - but I do ok. I've always found that I picked things up faster than those around me most of the time. I'm a naturally analytical person and have no problem immersing myself in something complex. I also have a decent amount of savings that I could use to get started with. From a work ethic perspective I will put in the work as long as it's taking me somewhere. Are there any others out there like me? If I couldn't make at least $150K/yr I probably would not be interested. I'd love to hear stories from those who may have tried this and how it worked out. Thanks in advance.

intelligence has nothing to do with trading. for example, if your car is broken, do you want a mechanic who has years of experience to fix your car or a college phd professor? you have some ppl who are very smart but don't know how to trade. you have average person, but have learn how to trade by year of experience and learning the proper way to trade. you by making a statement by saying you must at least make $150k/year already tell me alot about you which is you have no ideas about trading. my suggestion is don't trade. just put your money in a vanguard or fidelity target date fund. sorry to break the bad news, but you will lose your shirt and go home and cry to your spouse and say the market is rigged.

 

[Sweet Bobby]

The point is that someone should not be trading during work...they can trade other times of the day that does not conflict with their job. Yet, after backtesting and they determine their trade signals only appear during work...they will then need to adjust their job schedule so that they can trade those trade signals.
Incorrect. I trade from my phone during my lunch hour. I always have time to spare as I'm eating an apple and watching tastytrade. . Life is good!
The boss / supervisor will be happy they've hired someone devoted to their job instead of hiring someone doing something else they weren't hired to do during work hours.

 

[Sweet Bobby]

This statement is irrelevant because there is not enough information:

• what do you do in these15 minutes (get in and out and never watch your position?)
  
• what are you trading (options, forex, stocks, futures)
  
• in what timeframe are you trading (daytrading, scalping, LT)
  
• what is your objective in terms of return (take a small move or take the whole move of the day/week/month)
  
• ...

I open and close all my positions in 15 minutes.
I trade options on futures.
I trade 60 to 30 days.
My target return varies between 26 and 47%.
I am a master!

 

[312]

Most jobs have "code of conduct" or Employee Handbook

Very true for any decent job and they all have you sign paper work that you understand / agree to it prior to the employment becoming official. In fact, some types of jobs will have you sign additional paperwork associated with your employment involving code of conduct (e.g. military, doctors, law enforcement, teachers and so on).

If there's a violation of the code of conduct...loss of employment now becomes an option for the employer against the employee that choose to not do his/her job. Heck, there's even a code of conduct for employers...example for lawyers its called Bar Association.

Regardless, there's always a minority of people that feel like they have the right to do whatever they want to after being hired for employment and after signing those code of conduct paperwork. Most of these people go from job to job for obvious reasons.

I remember this guy from Boston when I was in the military. He conveniently forgot the code of conduct when he joined the Army...soon came up positive (drug use) on a random piss test. Search of his room by CID officers uncover his drug dealings.

Guy was arrested, tried, convicted and sent to Fort Leavenworth for 15 years...along with a dishonorable discharge waiting for him when he's released from prison. Something that will make his life afterwards much more difficult to get employment. I remember others saying he was screaming about his conviction being unfair. My immediate thought was he should have never joined the military if he didn't have the ability to follow the code of conduct.

Shocking to find out there's people out there that still believe they can seek employment and then decide they don't have to do their job so they can do something else...then behave they're shocked when they lose their employment or worst.

People forget that it cost an employer time and lots of money to train someone to do a job even if that person has experience. Don't trade at work...its as simple as that. Not sure why folks are being ignorant about that.

Life is so unfair.

wrbtrader

I'm in Montreal, happy to discuss in person

 

[312]

Military is nowhere near as comparable to corporate

 

[wrbtrader]

Military is nowhere near as comparable to corporate

Depends of the job type and your location.

 

[trader99]

intelligence has nothing to do with trading. for example, if your car is broken, do you want a mechanic who has years of experience to fix your car or a college phd professor? you have some ppl who are very smart but don't know how to trade. you have average person, but have learn how to trade by year of experience and learning the proper way to trade. you by making a statement by saying you must at least make $150k/year already tell me alot about you which is you have no ideas about trading. my suggestion is don't trade. just put your money in a vanguard or fidelity target date fund. sorry to break the bad news, but you will lose your shirt and go home and cry to your spouse and say the market is rigged.

While I agreed with you broadly, I would qualify that statement with "it depends" on the type of trading you do.

Some trading requires lots of academic training as just the entrance fee. Rentech and other quant firms hire PhDs and other quantitative types and specifically said they don't want people with any trading or finance experience. Apparently, that has not hurt their performance. They don't want their prospective traders/researchers to be biased by Wall St traditional thinking. Out of the box thinking using scientific methods.

I'm not saying that this is the only way to trade. It's one way to trade successfully.

There are many others sucessful methods that don't require any formal education. Instincts. Screentime. Experience. Dan Zanger has a phenomenal track record and he's mostly self taught and learnt from the school of hardknocks.

Then there are fundamental guys. Warren Buffett is not a quant and that has not stopped him from being successful.

PTJ is a TA trader(or at least early on) and he has done well along with other Market Wizards.

So, there are lots of nuances. Just like the market has a lot of nuances.

Having said, I do agreed broadly that being successful and getting high paying Corporate salaries is definitely NOT necessarily a good preparation for being a daytrader or a trader in general. Those are very distinctly different domains.

 

[312]

Depends of the job type and your location.

Serving your country is more important than serving some corporation's interests

 

[digitalnomad]

Serving your country is more important than serving some corporation's interests

Strongly agree. The US should require two years of mandatory military service at age 18, preferably in a backwards country like Bangladesh. If this was implemented, you'd have very few people protesting in the streets of America. We really live in a bubble here