Iraqi Freedom

[dgabriel]

Wrong Alfonso, you install Democracy, forge various political and economic links, and new Iraq "invites" our troops to stay. And even reorganizes its famed intellegence service to aid in the war on terror.

Your argument about going in getting the weapons and leaving is nonsensical. You don't go into a neighborhood, bust the drug dealers, take thier stash away and leave, expecting a drug free community to emerge. You go in get rid of the drug dealers (Hapaboy will shoot them), keep your police on the block, and try to rehabilitate the community.

Maybe it works differently in Buenos Aires, I don't know.

The argument against intervention is really irrelevant. Iraq lost its
sovereign status when it invaded Kuwait, and failed to reform. The UN at the time in effect withdrew its status of sovereignty by forcing it to comply with the terms of the peace. Saddam conducted a rogue state with an outlaw regime. Really Alfonso. If ever there was a case begging for invasion this is it.

Alfonso, just say you don't like US power per se. I'll accept that. But defending Iraq's sovereignty is untenable.

 

[alfonso]

Quote from dgabriel:

Wrong Alfonso, you install Democracy, forge various political and economic links, and new Iraq "invites" our troops to stay.

I could be wrong, but that sounds like a dreamworld scenario, grounded in wishful thinking rather than observable fact.

 

[dgabriel]

"Observable fact"? Its too early for that. The war ain't even over.

Call me in 2 years. I'll let you know who's cuddling u p with who

 

[dotslashfuture]

"I could be wrong, but that sounds like a dreamworld scenario, grounded in wishful thinking rather than observable fact"

this coming from somebody who is so deluded that Bush appears more evil than Sadam.

 

[alfonso]

Quote from dgabriel:

"Observable fact"? Its too early for that. Cal me in 2 years.

It's "too early" to assume that Arabs, practically universally, detest having American troops within their borders?

 

[iceman1]

Quote from KymarFye:

The evidence of Hussein's links to terrorist organizations of various types is, in my opinion, overwhelming. I'm not sure though that individuals who doubt, say, the evidence of the Iraqi regime's extreme and systematic human rights abuses, or of its genocidal repression of the Kurds and Shia, can be persuaded by what most of us would consider to be strong evidence. People who have placed themselves in that category have already offered challenges here. I would consider their inability to accept that such events occurred to make someone effectively unpersuadable, especially in the context of exchanges on an internet message board.

You tell me what you would accept as evidence, and maybe I'll see what I can turn up. If you do your own search of Hussein and terrorism, you'll probably turn up a ton of articles from major international media organizations, as well as governments and non-governmental organizations, that outline what is generally accepted to be true on the subject, as well as what many of us have little difficulty accepting as very strong circumstantial evidence. Some of this evidence comes directly from the organizations or from Hussein himself - such as the PFLP (famous for murdering Leon Klinghoffer aboard the Achille Lauro), which itself announced that one of its leading members died during the first-night bombing of the Iraqi leadership compound.

You may also of course choose to disbelieve anything that you haven't witnessed yourself, or that doesn't happen to suit your prejudices, or that hasn't already been affirmed by one or another public figure you happen to trust and admire. Such a position would also make you "unpersuadable," in my opinion.

brother..... let me ask you something.

Does it ever bother you that a certain Nation that everyone gets so self-righteous about... is infamous for keeping an entire race of people.. the black race.... as SLAVES for years going back to their founding fathers. DOES THAT BOTHER YOU... or are you one of these pompous types who can sit back like a video game and go bam..... bam.... you're dead saddam for all YOUR treachery and oppression of others! But you wouldn't offer a single word of outrage about things the US has done in IT'S history to oppress and degrade! And that evidence is ALSO overwhelming!

Or don't you think those two points correlate. Sure... !?

LOL

As I said in another post... let's clean up OUR OWN ACT first.. before we go acting like the moral authority on right and wrong for the World. And let's use some integrity and honor in assisting others... and only under the correct circumstances! Not some flimsy, trumped up b.s. appealing to the average brain-dead American's emotions!

OR don't you think we got anythng to clean up over here in the good old US of A? 'Cause you gotta it AOK?!!!!

I

 

[msfe]

Quote from alfonso:





I could be wrong, but that sounds like a dreamworld scenario, grounded in wishful thinking rather than observable fact.

to me it sounds like a simple description of American imperialism

 

[KymarFye]

Quote from alfonso:





It's "too early" to assume that Arabs, practically universally, detest having American troops within their borders?

I could link you to several articles describing positive reactions to the invasion, and to the troops directly, among Iraqi Arabs. Some include video or pictures. One such article even comes from the Arab News - which, big surprise, has taken a strong editorial stance against the invasion. Can you give me any reason why I should bother digging up the links for you? Would it make any difference in your position or your beliefs? Or will you instead, like your comrade msfe, engage in the message board equivalent of plugging your ears like a five-year-old and whining as loudly as you can? Or will just ignore the material, and go on exactly as you had before, pretending that the exchange has never occurred?

Outside of Iraq, there have been many articles and interviews describing a generally positive response in Qatar and Kuwait to the American presence. Obviously, there has also been some popular opposition, especially in Saudi Arabia. I'm not sure how many other Arab countries have detachments of American troops within their borders, but, unless you have determined that Iraqi civilians, Kuwaitis, and Qataris are no longer Arabs, then your statement then whatever detestation there is certainly is not universal, nor, as events have shown, is it very practical.

 

[dgabriel]

Quote from alfonso:





It's "too early" to assume that Arabs, practically universally, detest having American troops within their borders?

Yes, too early. And a bad assumption to make. Better to know. Again, call me in 2 years not 2 minutes.

 

[iceman1]

Quote from KymarFye:



I could link you to several articles describing positive reactions to the invasion, and to the troops directly, among Iraqi Arabs. Some include video or pictures. One such article even comes from the Arab News - which, big surprise, has taken a strong editorial stance against the invasion. Can you give me any reason why I should bother digging up the links for you? Would it make any difference in your position or your beliefs? Or will you instead, like your comrade msfe, engage in the message board equivalent of plugging your ears like a five-year-old and whining as loudly as you can? Or will just ignore the material, and go on exactly as you had before, pretending that the exchange has never occurred?

Outside of Iraq, there have been many articles and interviews describing a generally positive response in Qatar and Kuwait to the American presence. Obviously, there has also been some popular opposition, especially in Saudi Arabia. I'm not sure how many other Arab countries have detachments of American troops within their borders, but, unless you have determined that Iraqi civilians, Kuwaitis, and Qataris are no longer Arabs, then your statement then whatever detestation there is certainly is not universal, nor, as events have shown, is it very practical.

Hey... spend more time surfing for things that pertain to getting the US in order..... and getting rid of so many rip-offs and injustices, like on Wall Street for example, before preaching like so many other naive asses who rationalize this attack!

AND b.t.w what difference does it make if some view this attack as a positive thing. Does that make it RIGHT. Does the bigger picture of how it happened and what it portends for the US matter... ??!!!!!!

No offense, but a sophisticated mind ought to be able to grasp the "big picture" lessons here! And know the difference between rationalization and fact!

Ice