InvesTools anyone?

Thanks optimistic ---- Im aware of their hard sell tactics - that stuff is just entertaining to me - should be fun to talk to them about it


I am going to go to at least the first day of the class

I'll post some observations when I do

I appreciate your feedback
 
Hi HW

Thanks for the list of books ---- Im going to the book store today


any thoughts on a tool set that is equivalent to the investools web based stuff that provide the same function/feature --- at less cost?
 
Quote from mgabriel01:

Hi HW

Thanks for the list of books ---- Im going to the book store today

any thoughts on a tool set that is equivalent to the investools web based stuff that provide the same function/feature --- at less cost?
More...
Yes and no... There is really no website that has all the tools Investools has assembled... but my point is this... after diligent study you will find other sources more appropriate and better suited to your chosen style and personality, but this you will know only after some serious study.

If you choose to locate "used" course material from eBay, watching the dvds may be a good start to familiarize yourself with various terms, which may augment your reading... I initially reviewed the stock and basic options material... (Hence I know from what I speak)

Also on the eBay an individual is selling an assembled list of links, cheat sheets and reference material for I think $50.00, called the PHD toolkit, search under investools. It will save you a tremendous amount of time searching for these free sites and resources... you probably could just buy the CD and follow his links for the same info that is located in the investools material... just a thought...

fwiw
Investools method imho is a dangerous path for a "new" trader to follow... their promise (snake oil) is that you just follow their simple system, proprietary stock analysis, (stock screener) like sheep. Buy the green arrows and sell on the red arrows...

Their "arrow" system is based on a simple indicator, which you will soon learn is a basic moving average convergence divergence cross over system... (MACD) trend following indicator, found on every basic charting program: enter/exit when the fast moving average (MA) crosses above/below the slow MA. to simple for words.. and they charge thousands for this...

What is most important for you to learn is how to control your emotions, discipline, money/risk management, determine the instrument and style best suited for your skill set, be it position, swing (day trading and futures should not be considered at this stage)(trading options requires addtional skill sets as well). You must develop a trading plan and trading rules... You should understand the difference between fundamental/technical analysis, oscillators/indicators, support/resistance (and the application of), identifying trend, congestion and much more. Some of this is covered in investools course material, but at the most basic level.

Keep in mind, that all the study in the world will not prepare you completely to trade in the stock market... that will only come with experience.. What studying will do for you is make you aware of the risk and perhaps save you from serious financial loss...

The key to trading is capital preservation, the stock market is one of the most competitive arena's you will encounter...

Prepare well, good luck and safe trading....
 
Hw - this is 'great' feedback
well reasoned and articulated cleanly

thanks very much


what caught my attention about investools (from the phil town pitch) was:

it appears to me to be a consildation of several schools of thought ---

as I understood it from phils pitch

you use company fundamentals to screen for companies trading at a discount

you then use technical indicators to understand when to get in and out of a particular stock over a period of months (or longer)
ie - this is not day trading


and you also use additional information concerning volume and insider trading to determine what the behaviours of 'others' might have on the particular stock you are interested in

it appears to me that investools puts these 3 things in a package --- and that is the value they provide

I would guess that its your feeling I could go find each of these tools indicvidually and put them together for myself --- at far less cost

is that correct?

also - in your experience - does the reasoning behind the strategy mentioned above make sense?


thanks again for the great insights!!
 
Quote from mgabriel01:

does the reasoning behind the strategy mentioned above make sense?
More...
Yes, the reasoning is valid, but it is only one of many and is dependant on market conditions. The stock market is dynamic, always changing. And you must be prepared to adapt instinctively. My issue is that you must have a thorough understanding of WHY and not because a program arbitrarily rated the strength or weakness of a stock...

It is a multi faceted process and I truly am not qualified to explain in depth.. I will attempt to share what I believe is correct...

initially you need analyze the overall market
then you need to analyze the sector
then the equities in that sector
all the other variables need to be considered as well
Then you must analyze how all the above interact with each other and make an informed decision.

The program does this by applying a letter grade A-D for each area depending on their cookie cutter template. Averages the total and produces a score... imho you may as well trade off of morningstar ratings.

The most important thing to remember when entering a trade, is WHY you entered the trade to begin with, identify your profit target (RISK/REWARD RATIO) and exit point when you were wrong, then if and when circumstances change (because they will) you must be psychologically prepared to exit per your pre-determined trading rule (stop loss). This is something that an "A-" rated stock with a green arrow/switch to red will not do for you.... the ability to THINK for yourself!!!

Initially, I would recommend trading indices (one vehicle is ETF's, caveat they being highly liquid) this removes the necessity of analyzing individual stocks. It gives you an opportunity to refine and develop your trading skills. Many start down the path of guaranteed systems, paid chat rooms... one thought if the system is foolproof, why would anyone sell it and not just trade it to riches???

With experience you will see that very very few successful traders utilize investools (I know of none), they have brokerage accounts with trading platforms and charting software, data feeds with news services etc.... Once you become more educated and experienced you would throw away the "training wheels" (arrows and stock screener) and develop a strategy of your own...

One question you should ask yourself, how many students are in their 2nd or 3rd year with the Investools website, and of those how many are successful (not just think they are successful).

Second question you should ask yourself, how much time do you want to waste before you come to the same conclusions on your own... Lost opportunity is a greater loss than the exorbitant (tuition charged)

Hope this helps... again just my opinion, as in the stock market you must weigh the information for yourself and make your on decision... no one can provide you with a little green arrow... :)
 
Quote from hwkaiser:

...What is most important for you to learn is how to control your emotions, discipline, money/risk management, determine the instrument and style best suited for your skill set, be it position, swing (day trading and futures should not be considered at this stage)(trading options requires addtional skill sets as well). You must develop a trading plan and trading rules... You should understand the difference between fundamental/technical analysis, oscillators/indicators, support/resistance (and the application of), identifying trend, congestion and much more. Some of this is covered in investools course material, but at the most basic level.
More...

I totally agree about controlling emotions. Probably the most important thing I got from the in-person and online courses was DON'T be an emotional trader. Unfortunately, I still haven't mastered that. When it hit the fan in August, I bailed out of my stocks and my S&P based mutual funds that are now up higher than they were in July and bought ultrashort R/E ETFs which were good for a few days and then dropped... It is hard to be in this alone.

I've done a better job with what they taught us about portfolio management and support/resistance, volume surges, etc. Using their tools, it is easy to choose stocks with good fundamentals and then choose the right time to buy, based on three different indicators' green arrows. It isn't so easy to know when to sell, unless you're bailing on those indicators' three red arrows.

I like to gamble, but I don't like to lose, so I have to curb my impulses. I still get scared and bail too often because I don't have enough trading experience to know when to sell. So I agree with you about experience too. Unfortunately, it usually comes at a price...
 
In daytrading the most important indicator is volume and price action and trading support and resistance levels.

All indicators are laggards, should learn just to trade off a chart with no indicators execpt a simple moving avearge and volume, and watch the reversal areas, and watch the volume.

Like a trade in AKAM on 10/02/08 at 11:30 am about 4 million shares came into it, institutions and hedges fund buying , so someone knows something, so you follow the volume. Got in trade @ 28.80 and it trended up rest of the day and covered @ 30 it continued up back in @ 30.00 sold 31.20 for nice profits.

Just by following the volume, and price action moving up, so you get in for the ride.


Patrick
 
Quote from traderpatmi:

In daytrading the most important indicator is volume and price action and trading support and resistance levels.

All indicators are laggards, should learn just to trade off a chart with no indicators except a simple moving average and volume, and watch the reversal areas, and watch the volume.

Patrick
More...

Hi Patrick,

What do you get the list of stocks with major increased volume as it happens? I'd like that tool myself.
 
Quote from mgabriel01:

I'll keep you posted on how it turns out
More...
Some additional thoughts.

ET Forum is an excellent resource to educate yourself. There are many generous, intelligent and experienced traders here who are willing to help, however, they are in the minority. Unfortunately you will find many hateful, negative posters as well. To follow are my suggestions to make ET a positive and fruitful resource for you.

1, Do not engage in the negativity, you will soon learn who the "trolls" and hate mongers are. Place them on your ignore list. Keep your focus positive.

2, Research ALL your questions from past threads, PRIOR to posing a question to the forum. 99% of all your questions have been asked before, you will mainly receive negative replies, the helpful members are just burned out answering the same question day in and day out. You will only draw the "trolls" like a moth to a flame...

3, When you do post a question, be specific and concise, show you have performed your due diligence. Do not ask overly general question but list the pertinent parameters, type of trading, time frame, instrument (stock, index, futures, options etc...) Formulate intelligent questions and you will receive intelligent replies. Most will help those that help themselves, however, no one will help someone to lazy to do so...

4, Trading/investing is a never ending learning process. It will take some time to get your basic foundation, be patient, consistent and dedicated. Do not rush forward, stay within your envelope and never become complacent!!!

5, To follow is a good thread I recommend you read: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...ge=6&highlight=sierra and ensign&pagenumber=1
Much does not apply to you at this stage, however, pay special attention to the comments of Stealth Trader, Holy Grail and Anekdoten. Excellent advice and generous individuals...

6, Pay it forward. At some point it will all click and hopefully you will go on to a successful future in the stock market... Share your knowledge, experience and help others ten fold that of which you have received on your journey.

Good luck
 
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