Intelligent Design is not creationism

Quote from james_bond_3rd:

So instead of being a "designer," your creator is a tinker? Is he/she tinkering with the lightening? With the floods? With the diseases?
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Imo God rarely interferes with natural phenomenon such as floods, storms and diseases. The earth is set up to run and He lets it go for the most part. And, yes, the earth was designed to be mostly a beautiful, gorgeous, awe-inspiring place. But it was also simultaneously designed to be a sobering and painful place as well. La Via Dolorosa...

So, in general, I don't think of Him as a Tinkerer.
 
Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

More remarkably, you have the earth once man is formed/created experiencing almost endless supernatural occurrences throughout history.
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Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

Imo God rarely interferes with natural phenomenon such as floods, storms and diseases. The earth is set up to run and He lets it go for the most part. And, yes, the earth was designed to be mostly a beautiful, gorgeous, awe-inspiring place. But it was also simultaneously designed to be a sobering and painful place as well. La Via Dolorosa...

So, in general, I don't think of Him as a Tinkerer.
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LMAO

Read your Bible and come back and tell me that God does not interfere with floods...
 
Quote from james_bond_3rd:

LMAO

Read your Bible and come back and tell me that God does not interfere with floods...
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I said "rarely" not never.

I don't know of any Christian who thinks that God is literally tinkering and messing with every rain storm and lightning bolt, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.
 
Shoe:
>I don't know of any Christian who thinks that God is
>literally tinkering and messing with every rain storm
>and lightning bolt, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

As is historically typical, you and I have very different christian friends -- almost ALL of my christian friends believe just that.

JB
 
Quote from Turok:

Shoe:
>I don't know of any Christian who thinks that God is
>literally tinkering and messing with every rain storm
>and lightning bolt, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

As is historically typical, you and I have very different christian friends -- almost ALL of my christian friends believe just that.

JB
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Actually, I think the randomness of life is an issue for a lot of Christians. They don't understand imo how mathematical God is. But I think the confusion is that you'll hear Christians say things like, "Thank goodness God brought us some rain". They usually don't mean that God was up in the heavens with a huge fan changing the course of the Jet Stream or something like that. It more just means that God is generally responsible for the weather. Well, actually, I think if I pushed them on it, they wouldn't know what they mean exactly in a scientific sense. They just want to express thanks to God for all things good since to them He is the One behind the scenes of everything.

Btw, what are you doing hanging around all those Christians, eh? :)
 
I think most Christians are confused. They believe in free will yet credit God with "good" things. Well, some of those "good" things require people to help it come about. In order for that to happen, wouldn't God have to "make" certain people do certain things? If so, then those particular people, the miracle or "good" thing enablers, will have to have their free will suspended.

Wouldn't that mean there's no freewill if there's a God who answers prayer?
 
Quote from DerekD:

I think most Christians are confused. They believe in free will yet credit God with "good" things. Well, some of those "good" things require people to help it come about. In order for that to happen, wouldn't God have to "make" certain people do certain things? If so, then those particular people, the miracle or "good" thing enablers, will have to have their free will suspended.

Wouldn't that mean there's no freewill if there's a God who answers prayer?
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The picture in the Bible is that God occasionally suspends free will and "forces" men to do things. But, generally speaking, men are considered free agents and have choice thus the reality of sin and the need for a Savior.

But I'm not sure why God would have to force someone to do good which is what I think you're saying?
 
Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

The picture in the Bible is that God occasionally suspends free will and "forces" men to do things. But, generally speaking, men are considered free agents and have choice thus the reality of sin and the need for a Savior.
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Are they free in mind only, which is where sin would start, or are they free in action too? The action part seems gray since as you say, according to the bible God can and does force people to do things.

But I'm not sure why God would have to force someone to do good which is what I think you're saying?
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Well not necessarily good things. What I meant was, things some would consider good or beneficial for themselves and maybe others. For instance, say someone prays for a job. Should that prayer be answered, wouldn't certain people have been forced into certain actions which resulted in the prayer being answered? And if so, then wouldn't free will be suspended for whomever had a hand in actions which would ultmately result in answering that prayer?

Do you see where I'm getting at in spite of my poor way of articulating it?
 
Quote from DerekD:

Are they free in mind only, which is where sin would start, or are they free in action too? The action part seems gray since as you say, according to the bible God can and does force people to do things.



Well not necessarily good things. What I meant was, things some would consider good or beneficial for themselves and maybe others. For instance, say someone prays for a job. Should that prayer be answered, wouldn't certain people have been forced into certain actions which resulted in the prayer being answered? And if so, then wouldn't free will be suspended for whomever had a hand in actions which would ultmately result in answering that prayer?

Do you see where I'm getting at in spite of my poor way of articulating it?
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Let me emphasize that I said only sometimes does God force people to do things in the Bible.

As far as answering prayer in competitive situations, then I agree with you that that is a risky situation at best. That's why - at least in my experience - I never hear Christians (over the age of about 16) praying for a win. They generally pray to 'play their best' and things similar.

Now if I were to pray for a job, I would pray that prayer hoping that I was truly the most qualified. Only if it was a tie would I pray to beat everyone else out. :)

Just kidding! That's one of my pet peeves about Christian television: they want you to get that check, get that money, get that job by faith. But they leave out all the verses on work, faithfulness and other career-enabling attributes that will get you that job under normal circumstances so you don't have to be hoping for a miracle because you're so dysfunctional and underqualified!
 
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