In the Coronavirus Fight in Scandinavia, Sweden Stands Apart

[UsualName]

We don't know and I know that I come dangerously close to saying something positive about Americans and other countries (can't have that) but there is the argument that the flu rate this winter has been dramatically lower and can possibly be attributed to people showing some compliant behavior even more the vaccine factor arrived. In other words, the precautions taken against covid have resulted in less flu as well so possibly lots of people have been being good in meaningful numbers.

This is a great point. Now we (as a group) are actually building useful content.

Now I don’t know if this speaks to the transmissibility of Covid or that flu can be relatively contained with increased prevention going forward - maybe both. The flu aspect is certainly a useful public health learning tool going forward.

 

[wrbtrader]

This is a great point. Now we (as a group) are actually building useful content.

Now I don’t know if this speaks to the transmissibility of Covid or that flu can be relatively contained with increased prevention going forward - maybe both. The flu aspect is certainly a useful public health learning tool going forward.

At my girlfriend's hospital (she's an ICU nurse) here in Québec...3x more people last year from June to December were vaccinated with the Flu shot. They have seen a dramatic drop in severe Flu cases in comparison to prior years.

At my brother's hospital in South Dakota...4.2x more people last year in the same time period were vaccinated with the Flu shot. His hospital has also seen a dramatic drop in severe Flu cases in comparison to prior years.

• A common question asked by people getting their Flu shot...will it lesson the severity of Covid-19 if they were to become infected with Covid ?

Simply, I will assume its the same all over the world...Covid-19 scared the hell out of people...so much that people decided its best to get all their vaccinations.

Last fall, I had both the Flu shot and Prevnar (pneumonia) shot.

wrbtrader

 

[UsualName]

At my girlfriend's hospital (she's an ICU nurse) here in Québec...3x more people last year from June to December were vaccinated with the Flu shot. They have seen a dramatic drop in severe Flu cases in comparison to prior years.

At my brother's hospital in South Dakota...4.2x more people last year in the same time period were vaccinated with the Flu shot. His hospital has also seen a dramatic drop in severe Flu cases in comparison to prior years.

• A common question asked by people getting their Flu shot...will it lesson the severity of Covid-19 if they were to become infected with Covid ?

Simply, I will assume its the same all over the world...Covid-19 scared the hell out of people...so much that people decided its best to get all their vaccinations.

Last fall, I had both the Flu shot and Prevnar (pneumonia) shot.

wrbtrader

wrb coming out of nowhere with the unexpected info. Nice!

I had no idea flu shots were up this year and experts are crediting this increase, pair with mask use and distancing for this.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/flu-numbers-year-due-higher-vaccination-rates-amid/story?id=74783195

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

wrb coming out of nowhere with the unexpected info. Nice!

I had no idea flu shots were up this year and experts are crediting this increase, pair with mask use and distancing for this.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/flu-numbers-year-due-higher-vaccination-rates-amid/story?id=74783195

Can't see the wrb post but I will add in that even if declines in flu are supported by increase in flu shots rather than just human behavior, that the flu shot for the 2020 winter has only been 45% or so effective and only marginally matched to the flu strain that we ended out with, which is pretty much the case each year because it lags behind. Nevertheless it is still instructive for the covid epidemic to the extent that some continue to argue that certaiin vaccines are only 50% effective. I have heard the words "practically useless" used right here on the forum for such vaccines. Not necessarily true. In the same way that flu shots are not useless when in that range.

If you want to drop to other factors, there is also the argument that lingers- and I buy into in a limited way- that the flu shot confers some "help-but-not-proetection" against covid even if incomplete and not a vaccine. That is because the flu shots tend to increase immunoglobin G which seems to be the main antibody that people who have never had covid use to fight off covid before they have developed covid specific antibodies.

Also of note is the fact that even though flu vaccinations were up massively this year, those increased rates did not show in data for minorities. So there is that factor again.

 

[jem]

Millions and millions of hours of living not destroyed by govt edict.
Millions of younger school kids got to develop at normal rates.
Thousands of businesses and economic lives not destroyed by edict.

Similar performance.... I knew you scared lefties were selfish pricks... but to not think about life and living is crazy.

[/QUOTE]

Sweden performed just a poorly economically as the rest of the EU. Sweden performed worse than its neighbors.

 

[gwb-trading]

Can't see the wrb post but I will add in that even if declines in flu are supported by increase in flu shots rather than just human behavior, that the flu shot for the 2020 winter has only been 45% or so effective and only marginally matched to the flu strain that we ended out with, which is pretty much the case each year because it lags behind. Nevertheless it is still instructive for the covid epidemic to the extent that some continue to argue that certaiin vaccines are only 50% effective. I have heard the words "practically useless" used right here on the forum for such vaccines. Not necessarily true. In the same way that flu shots are not useless when in that range.

If you want to drop to other factors, there is also the argument that lingers- and I buy into in a limited way- that the flu shot confers some "help-but-not-proetection" against covid even if incomplete and not a vaccine. That is because the flu shots tend to increase immunoglobin G which seems to be the main antibody that people who have never had covid use to fight off covid before they have developed covid specific antibodies.

Also of note is the fact that even though flu vaccinations were up massively this year, those increased rates did not show in data for minorities. So there is that factor again.

The effectiveness of a vaccine at a defined targeted virus type is totally different that the percentage of flu cases for the year were one of three types included in the shot this particular year. You are comparing apples and oranges.

Flu shots have no effectiveness against COVID -- as stated by their manufacturers and demonstrated in tests./studies. Medical professionals urge people to get the flu shot this year to avoid two situations; the possibility of getting flu & COVID at the same time, and getting the flu at a time medical facilities were out of capacity due to COVID.

The significant reduction in flu cases this recent flu season 2020/2021 is due to two factors. The first is a greater number people being vaccinated which helped a little bit. A far greater factor was people social distancing and wearing masks to stop COVID which for the most part wiped out the flu this season (since the flu is less infectious than COVID).

The global R0 number for COVID is 4.5 while the flu only has an R0 number of 1.3 for 1.8 in different years with various types.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

The effectiveness of a vaccine at a defined targeted virus type is totally different that the percentage of flu cases for the year were one of three types included in the shot this particular year.

.

Gobbledygook statement.

Where a the flu epidemic is comprised of multiple variants of the virus, the effectiveness or lack of effectiveness against any or all of the variants is definitely related to its effectiveness against the epidemic in general.

Its not comparing apples and oranges. It is more like MacIntosh to Golden Delicious.

And your other points were addressed in my caution about how the binary thinkers would arrive right on schedule to misunderstand and miss-state my point, and you arrived like clockwork.

 

[gwb-trading]

Millions and millions of hours of living not destroyed by govt edict.
Millions of younger school kids got to develop at normal rates.
Thousands of businesses and economic lives not destroyed by edict.

Similar performance.... I knew you scared lefties were selfish pricks... but to not think about life and living is crazy.

The schools in Sweden were closed early in the pandemic and they were closed again recently. In fact the K-12 schools in Germany had more days in the classroom than Sweden in 2020.

Many business in Sweden shut down also because business dropped off sharply -- the country's unemployment soared and the economy performed badly.

Bottom Line: The ONLY way to have a strong economy is to ELIMINATE COVID. This was demonstrated by New Zealand, Australia and other nations that properly addressed COVID.

 

[gwb-trading]

Gobbledygook statement.

Where a the flu epidemic is comprised of multiple variants of the virus, the effectiveness or lack of effectiveness against any or all of the variants is definitely related to its effectiveness against the epidemic in general.

Its not comparing apples and oranges. It is more like MacIntosh to Golden Delicious.

And your other points were addressed in my caution about how the binary thinkers would arrive right on schedule to misunderstand and miss-state my point, and you arrived like clockwork.

And once again the efficacy of a vaccine as defined in a trial has nothing to do with your gobbledygook nonsense about the flu vaccine.

An effectiveness of 50% (basically a coin toss) in the results group in a trial means that the vaccine has no measurable positive effect on the study group in preventing the disease compared to a control group. A value of 51% like the Chinese vaccine for COVID in Brazil would indicate results next to useless.

This is very different than a flu vaccine stopping 50% of the possible infections in a year because 50% of the infections were one of the targeted strains in the vaccine that year.

 

[gwb-trading]

Here's a graphic representation of COVID "natural herd immunity".