In the Coronavirus Fight in Scandinavia, Sweden Stands Apart

[jem]

I can't believe you all keep citing countries like Taiwan to support your side.
Taiwan is perfect proof we don't need lockdowns. Their model was an even stronger version of the position than I take.

1. I just read again that Taiwan never shutdown businesses or imposed blanket lockdowns but they only had 6 deaths from Covid.

Their model is a far superior to blanket shutdowns.



Think about the dickhead running CA right now.
He is doing the opposite of the Taiwan model.
Taiwan closed their borders early.
They do targeted quarantines.
They use an app to trace.

We are importing Covid Cases from Mexico right now...
And then using the increase in cases to impose new lockdowns of our
businesses and beaches.
We should have transparent data and testing.
Our govt should be creating trust and using data based approaches.

We have idiots running massive parts of our country with fucking close down voodoo which is just going to cycle and re cycle unless the virus goes away on its own or through a vaccine.

Once again we get the worst of the left and the right in the world...
because our politicians are corrupt or dumb or both.
and we have a press and populace which does not challenge one side or the other.

They all suck. The press should be challenge them all to provide transparent data.




There is no science or data saying that we should have blanket lockdown.

Canada is already opening up in stages, has been doing so for weeks. Some areas stated in May. Yesterday, Ontario our largest province, had ZERO deaths. Meanwhile I'm reading that Taiwan had 6 or 7 deaths total the whole year. Looking at the model in Sweden is a mistake.
They've handled it all very badly. Per capita Sweden has more then twice as many deaths due to this virus as Canada. And obviously massively more deaths then countries like Taiwan.

You want to talk about deaths in senior homes Canada leads the world in that category; 80% of all Covid deaths in Canada occurred in long term care. It's not something we are proud of. What we can be proud of is the restraint out citizens have had with respect to safety and medical recommendations. The paper reported today that only 14% of people in Ontario oppose our new mandatory mask law in all enclosed public spaces.

There was never any panic in shutting down here it was done quickly and smartly, and there is none of this online hysteria about personal freedoms and that the lock down hurt anyone at all. Canada ( and many other places I'm sure ) are going to be a thorn in your side trying to push your emotional overdone theories about this virus.

 

[Bugenhagen]

I can't believe you all keep citing countries like Taiwan to support your side.
Taiwan is perfect proof we don't need lockdowns. Their model was an even stronger version of the position than I take.

1. I just read again that Taiwan never shutdown businesses or imposed blanket lockdowns but they only had 6 deaths from Covid.

Their model is a far superior to blanket shutdowns.



Think about the dickhead running CA right now.
He is doing the opposite of the Taiwan model.
Taiwan closed their borders early.
They do targeted quarantines.
They use an app to trace.

We are importing Covid Cases from Mexico right now...
And then using the increase in cases to impose new lockdowns of our
businesses and beaches.
We should have transparent data and testing.
Our govt should be creating trust and using data based approaches.

We have idiots running massive parts of our country with fucking close down voodoo which is just going to cycle and re cycle unless the virus goes away on its own or through a vaccine.

Once again we get the worst of the left and the right in the world...
because our politicians are corrupt or dumb or both.
and we have a press and populace which does not challenge one side or the other.

They all suck. The press should be challenge them all to provide transparent data.




There is no science or data saying that we should have blanket lockdown.

Taiwan having prior experience and plans in place for another epidemic from China (not a friend) stopped all international travel immediately and traced all infected. Jem again using reasoning detached from events in linear time, cause and effect. They caught the genie.

These boys are just fucked in the head stupid.

 

[jem]

you are a moron....bugen wrongen;

First of all you and now your boy nine_morons have cited countries who did not shut down as being the proper model. (thanks for confirming my arguments with your examples) You are the prove moron on this subject.


Taiwan closed the borders...early.
Something your team was against... Trump got ripped for just trying to shut down travel from China... if I recall.

--
We still have not properly closed the borders...

We are bringing Corona virus cases from Mexico into CA and then shutting down businesses because positive Covid testing is rising.

Is that a proper course of action in your book? or should you just shut the fuck about about shit you don't understand.

(finally let me say... for humanitarian reasons I am not against helping people coming in from Mexico... I just don't think their positive tests should be used in the shut down equation.)

Taiwan having prior experience and plans in place for another epidemic from China (not a friend) stopped all international travel immediately and traced all infected. Jem again using reasoning detached from events in linear time, cause and effect. They caught the genie.

These boys are just fucked in the head stupid.

 

[gwb-trading]

Canada is already opening up in stages, has been doing so for weeks. Some areas stated in May. Yesterday, Ontario our largest province, had ZERO deaths. Meanwhile I'm reading that Taiwan had 6 or 7 deaths total the whole year. Looking at the model in Sweden is a mistake.
They've handled it all very badly. Per capita Sweden has more then twice as many deaths due to this virus as Canada. And obviously massively more deaths then countries like Taiwan.

You want to talk about deaths in senior homes Canada leads the world in that category; 80% of all Covid deaths in Canada occurred in long term care. It's not something we are proud of. What we can be proud of is the restraint out citizens have had with respect to safety and medical recommendations. The paper reported today that only 14% of people in Ontario oppose our new mandatory mask law in all enclosed public spaces.

There was never any panic in shutting down here it was done quickly and smartly, and there is none of this online hysteria about personal freedoms and that the lock down hurt anyone at all. Canada ( and many other places I'm sure ) are going to be a thorn in your side trying to push your emotional overdone theories about this virus.

This map shows why it would be 'terrifying' to open Canada-U.S. border
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/this-map...12933#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=Facebook&_gsc=6BC9w3U

A map showing the startling contrast between Canada and the United States in the fight against COVID-19 has an infectious disease expert "terrified" at the thought of reopening the border.

As Canadian COVID-19 trends continue to decline, cases in the United States propel upwards. The Canada-U.S. border remains closed until July 21 but reopening it to non-essential travel anytime soon would likely lead to a resurgence in cases, infectious disease specialist Dr. Abdu Sharkawy said.

"It absolutely terrifies me to think of the prospect of any sort of easing of restrictions that could allow greater travel between Canada and the United States," he said, adding that the United States could hit 100,000 new infections per day sometime in the next week.

"These numbers are just unfathomable and astronomical when you consider what we have dealt with here in Canada over the course of three or four months."

He said that maps tracking COVID-19 infections worldwide, like the one pictured above from Johns Hopkins University, paints a picture of how a country can successfully or unsuccessfully manage a pandemic.

While the data on the map above is on a more localized level in the United States, which makes it appear more red, there are still an overwhemling number of cases south of the border compared to Canada.

For example, a single red dot in New York City or Los Angeles accounts for more cases than in all of Canada.

"I don't think we have seen any another part of the world where you have two neighbouring countries in polar opposite situations in terms of pandemic control," Sharkawy said. "This is a very strange phenomena where you are seeing such an extreme range."

To date, there have been 2,796 COVID-19 cases per million people in Canada, while in the United States that number is much higher at 9,051 per million.

The United States is leading the world in COVID-19 cases as it nears the three million mark, while Canada has just over 106,000.

"I think if you look around the world at other countries that have successfully flattened the curve, a lot of resurgent cases have been a direct result of travel restrictions being eased," Sharkawy said.

"Border control and travel restrictions are a very key element in keeping your particular geographical area safe."

"It's the longest undefended border in the world and the last thing we want to do is turn it into the longest unprotected border when it comes to COVID-19 transmission."

Ontario Premier Doug Ford said in June that he believes reopening the borders too early could spark a second wave of COVID-19.

"I know it's inevitable … I just don't think we are ready right now," Ford said. "You see what's happening down in the states; you look at Florida, you look at Texas, Arizona, California. I don't want to be those states. I want to protect the people here in Ontario."

"Believe me, I love the Americans, make no mistake about it, but not when their COVID cases are just spiking right now and I’m just not in favour."

Since March, everyone entering Canada for non-essential reasons has been ordered to quarantine for two weeks. The order was extended until the end of August but could be pushed even further.

Travelling within Canada 'reasonable'

While Sharkawy said he wouldn't road trip across Canada right now, he said beginning to plan travel again within the country "makes sense."

"I think it's very reasonable to explore interprovincial travel," Sharkawy said.

"Again, I wouldn't do it for the sake of doing it but if someone wanted to visit friends or family and its likely to bring them a great deal of comfort and satisfaction then I think the benefit of that outweighs the theoretical risk of acquiring COVID-19."

 

[Bugenhagen]

you are a moron....

Taiwan closed the borders...early.
Something your team was against... Trump got ripped for just trying to shut down travel from China... if I recall.

We still have not closed the borders... you douchebag.

We are bringing Corona virus cases from Mexico into CA and then shutting down businesses because positive Covid testing is rising.

Is that a proper course of action in your book? or should you just shut the fuck about about shit you don't understand.

Jem, decide if I'm on ignore and I can make fun of your stupid without addressing you or not. You look desperate.

Nobody had an issue with closing the borders, they had issues with Trump's overtones in doing it and the information he provided allowing them to gauge the threat. In any case each country can only do with it possible under its own unique circumstances.

Taiwan, Sweden, South Korea, Vietnam, Canada and the US all had to make choices on what was actually possible.

You are saying should have this and that like a total fantasist lost in his magical thinking.

 

[Tsing Tao]

This map shows why it would be 'terrifying' to open Canada-U.S. border

Yeah, terrifying map. Kinda looks like this map, which is the population density in North America.

Terrifying!

What a joke this "reporting" is.

 

[jem]

All you do is make spurious distinctions or distinctions without a difference.

focus on the issue here.

All I ask is for doomers is to produce data and science supporting the lockdown of low risk groups.

Why can't you all do that?

2. Trumps overtones? That is a good one. if you can't admit that there was significant push back against shutting down the borders at first.. you are not interested in the truth.

Jem, decide if I'm on ignore and I can make fun of your stupid without addressing you or not. You look desperate.

Nobody had an issue with closing the borders, they had issues with Trump's overtones in doing it and the information he provided allowing them to gauge the threat. In any case each country can only do with it possible under its own unique circumstances.

Taiwan, Sweden, South Korea, Vietnam, Canada and the US all had to make choices on what was actually possible.

You are saying should have this and that like a total fantasist lost in his magical thinking.

 

[jem]

Finally... I am making the argument against continued shut downs without science and data.

The past is the past.
We need to learn from it... but I don't really care what we should have done.

But I am seeing morons like our Governor in CA reimposing lockdowns on business and beaches.

What I ask for him to to that is show... that Covid is being spread at beaches in significant numbers.

Without data its just voodoo and politics.

I ask for data so we can have a real debate on the merits of policy.

For instance ...

1. Is there significant spread at beaches.
2. Are the people getting it at the beach going into ICUs
3. Are low risk groups safe to be at the beach..

we need data like this so we can trust govt before locking down. Right now we all know this is a shit show with morons in charge and bad data.

Jem, decide if I'm on ignore and I can make fun of your stupid without addressing you or not. You look desperate.

Nobody had an issue with closing the borders, they had issues with Trump's overtones in doing it and the information he provided allowing them to gauge the threat. In any case each country can only do with it possible under its own unique circumstances.

Taiwan, Sweden, South Korea, Vietnam, Canada and the US all had to make choices on what was actually possible.

You are saying should have this and that like a total fantasist lost in his magical thinking.

 

[Bugenhagen]

Yeah, terrifying map. Kinda looks like this map, which is the population density in North America.

Terrifying!

What a joke this "reporting" is.

All you do is make spurious distinctions or distinctions without a difference.

focus on the issue here.

All I ask is for doomers is to produce data and science supporting the lockdown of low risk groups.

Why can't you all do that?

2. Trumps overtones? That is a good one. if you can't admit that there was significant push back against shutting down the borders at first.. you are not interested in the truth.

Jem you discredited yourself entirely and you want people to forget that and follow your little pied pipe down a different path. Not going to happen.

Trump had two months at least, he did nothing.

 

[jem]

complete bullshit... that is your problem you think anyone pushing for science and data must be pro Trump. so you reflexively argue against that person because you have dangerous levels of TDS.

I despise what Trump is doing right now. He is failing enormously right now.

I have blamed Trump .. you moron.
I blame... the CDC, Trump, Governors... all levels of govt. Congress...
where the fuck are they?

The lack of transparent data is appalling, its dangerous and causing harm and deaths which we don't have to suffering. Its leading to voodoo decision making and policies which will turn out to be terrible.

We are mixing antibody tests and live virus tests.
In some areas we are including daily retests in the positive data.

Trump is being rolled and his re election chances destroyed because he has not had the common sense to see that he should be championing transparent data and tracing of clusters.

Basically... if he does not get us transparent data and report on it everyday... he deserves to not be re-elected.

In his terms he is losing to Covid right now and we are not winning because of it.

Jem you discredited yourself entirely and you want people to forget that and follow your little pied pipe down a different path. Not going to happen.

Trump had two months at least, he did nothing.