In the Coronavirus Fight in Scandinavia, Sweden Stands Apart

you don't know that any policy as failed.
you are measuring what? is economic impact in your measurement. domestic violence, depression, alcoholism what?

even if its soley deaths... you will have to wait for a while before you know.
Delaying deaths may not delay the total deaths.
finally, don't you think we need to be comparing at risk vs at risk in the percentages.
if sweden has a higher percentage of at risk people what exactly do you know?

for instance are you prepared to say New York had the worst response and the worst Governor?


gwb-trading said:
The raw figures from Sweden do not support the health minister's assertions. Unless he provides the "claimed" models supporting his herd immunity assertions then he is merely spouting propaganda from the government line trying to defend their failed and dangerous policy.
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jem said:
And your side has not provided any useful stats to create a useful and trustworthy model either.
As I said in the beginning it was all guesswork and bullshit if you don't know how many people have been exposed.
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The bottom line is the US was thoroughly unprepared to deal with this crisis, despite being the richest country in the world. That should lead to some questions.
 
I agree we were unprepared.
CDC screwed up their tests.

But, would testing have made a difference?
If you think testing would have made a difference
Then there are only very limited goldilocks scenarios in which blanket shutdown is the right call with this virus and testing and tracing is useful.

if testing and tracing could have been significantly useful then blanket shutdown was probably unnecessary.

RO has to be pretty low for testing and tracing to work in a City.
If RO is high and you 14 days of infection and over half the people have no symptoms
testing is not going to make a dent.

If the RO is low enough for testing and tracing to be useful in a big city then maybe you don't need shutdown in areas were there are not as many at risk people.





Nine_Ender said:
The bottom line is the US was thoroughly unprepared to deal with this crisis, despite being the richest country in the world. That should lead to some questions.
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Trump was being called xenophobic by democrat leaders as he did one of the best things possible and that was limit air travel from China.

Fauci also said he went with shutdown when asked.
I think most democrats would have done far worse if make a list of those who were agains his travel ban.

Trump acted OK... he could have done better but it was his statements downplaying the risk in the beginning that were the big issue.





gwb-trading said:
Are you prepared to say that the United State had the worst response and the worst President?
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Dr. Love said:
Not true. Please educate yourself.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1249827680788381697
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The point I was making is that you cannot "say that the United State had the worst response and the worst President". There are many other worse responses around the world including the President of Brazil.

In the same form -- you cannot say "New York had the worst response and the worst Governor." There are other governors across the U.S. with worse responses to this COVID-19 public pandemic. Their states are shortly going to endure a harsh lesson.
 
jem said:
I agree we were unprepared.
CDC screwed up their tests.

But, would testing have made a difference?
If you think testing would have made a difference
Then there are only very limited goldilocks scenarios in which blanket shutdown is the right call with this virus and testing and tracing is useful.

if testing and tracing could have been significantly useful then blanket shutdown was probably unnecessary.

RO has to be pretty low for testing and tracing to work in a City.
If RO is high and you 14 days of infection and over half the people have no symptoms
testing is not going to make a dent.

If the RO is low enough for testing and tracing to be useful in a big city then maybe you don't need shutdown in areas were there are not as many at risk people.
More...

I'm not going to debate details, I'm not a medical person, but on a broader level things seem a lot worse in the US on this then in Canada. I suppose the numbers could change but the death toll is quite stark in the US at this point and events like the trucks outside hospitals in NYC and running out of body bags ( eg like in the movie Contagion ) seem far more dire then anything going on here. We have serious issues in long term care for seniors leading to horrible death counts in some of those facilities. My sense based on what I'm reading and hearing is the level of concern ( and panic ) is more heightened in the US. One concern some have is if things get worse, can the US deal with the possibility of violence and crime.
 
I think you may be suffering from headline bias.
we are a big country.
NYC is screwed for some reason...

But type in deaths from Corona in CA and look at the tables.
Outside of L.A. there are so few deaths it is astounding.

Testing has nothing to do with what is going on here.
It could be the lockdown but most likely there was probably a great deal more exposure than known and our immune systems and sun have probably made a big difference too.


Govt preparation is probably very low on the list in terms of impact of this virus.

here is the list I just got off google it was updated a few hours ago.

we are one of the largest "countries" and economies in the world.
If you take out co-morbidities... what do you think the RO of healthy people could possibly be for this virus.

This data is nuts compared to the narrative. some of these counties have millions of people.
And we have been out food shopping without masks until about a week ago.

If you look at this an realize how many deaths were people who were going to die soon... you have to ask yourself what the hell is going on?
(I lost a family member this week so I realize I sound cold... but right now I am talking models and numbers.)

Los Angeles County
495
Riverside County
69
San Diego County
70
Santa Clara County
73
Orange County
32
San Francisco County
20
San Bernardino County
55
Alameda County
40
Sacramento County

San Mateo County
28
Contra Costa County
19
Kern County
3
Ventura County
13
San Joaquin County
17
Tulare County
17
Santa Barbara County
3
Fresno County
7
Stanislaus County
4
Marin County
10
Sonoma County
2
Solano County
2
Imperial County

3
Monterey County

3
San Luis Obispo County

1
Placer County

8
Yolo County

8
Santa Cruz County

2
Merced County

3
Humboldt County

0
Napa County

2
San Benito County

2
El Dorado County

0
Nevada County

1
Madera County

2
Shasta County
26
13
3
Sutter County

2
Mono County

1
Inyo County

0
Kings County

1
Butte County
-
0
Yuba County

1
Calaveras County

0
Amador County

0
Lake County

0
Mendocino County

0
Siskiyou County

0
Glenn County

0
Plumas County

0
Colusa County

0
Del Norte County

0
Tuolumne County

-
0
Alpine County

0
Tehama County

0
Lassen County
0
0
0
Mariposa County
0
0
0
Modoc County
0
0
0
Sierra County
0
0
0
Trinity County
0
Nine_Ender said:
I'm not going to debate details, I'm not a medical person, but on a broader level things seem a lot worse in the US on this then in Canada. I suppose the numbers could change but the death toll is quite stark in the US at this point and events like the trucks outside hospitals in NYC and running out of body bags ( eg like in the movie Contagion ) seem far more dire then anything going on here. We have serious issues in long term care for seniors leading to horrible death counts in some of those facilities. My sense based on what I'm reading and hearing is the level of concern ( and panic ) is more heightened in the US. One concern some have is if things get worse, can the US deal with the possibility of violence and crime.
More...
 
jem said:
I think you may be suffering from headline bias.
we are a big country.
NYC is screwed for some reason...
More...

Not really, I'm chilling in Toronto. We have one family member in California right now; they are far more concerned about the virus then we are. Headlines, posters here aren't really a concern to me if you say things are calm in the US great not sure why people are posting all the doomsday stuff about stock markets then on this site. What I'm saying is Canadians in general seem less stressed and cynical about the future then Americans these days. Whatever happens, happens.
 
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