I'm 21 years old, couldn't enter University, planning to trade full-time.

[wrbtrader]

...I don't know you, but I would imagine it's getting old because you talk a big game but don't provide proof. Either provide proof, or don't talk the game. I think this middle ground you're in is where you are getting into trouble...

Dude, every trader I hang out with knows my method and record and I know theirs. That's how real traders roll. You've never shared a beer with any of your friends, like ever? Track record is the very foundation of being taken seriously. Without it, you're a chatty Kathy doll.

Not for nothing, just my opinion, but you are fueling the very fire you are trying to put out.

And again, just so we're crystal clear, I am NOT asking for your track record. I'm just explaining to you why you are losing credibility with every subsequent post.

Actually, you're suggesting that he should provide a track record via you saying the above via statements like "either provide proof or don't talk the game". Seriously, you're specifically telling him that if you're going to talk the game...you need to provide proof. That in itself is a suggestive statement via you asking him to provide proof (track record) because you already know he talks the game similar to what many other active members at this forum do...

Talk the game.

In addition, you stated in the above quote..."track record is the very foundation of being taken seriously". This statement too is very suggestive. You're basically saying that you will not take him seriously unless he provides proof (track record). Simply, you're in fact indirectly requesting a track record.

Further, your statement "that's how real traders roll" is another statement to say that if someone hangs out with someone else and they didn't know each others method...they are not real traders. Seriously, sharing specific details of trade methods or sharing just the name of a trade method doesn't have any identification purpose to say that person is a real trader. The fact alone that hanging out with friends should allow others to know what your career is considering you're hanging out with friends...friends usually are intuitive about their friends career.

For example, I don't hang out with my neighbor across the street but I know he's a judge and he's not even a friend. I hang out with my neighbor to the right of my house and I know he's an officer in the military...he is a close friend and via observation when I first met him (he never had to say he was in the military)...I knew he was in the military via my own prior history in the military. Simply, if they had been traders instead of a judge or military...method sharing isn't needed to know if they are real traders.

Regardless, like I stated before...people here at ET directly request proof or indirectly request proof via suggestive statements for many different reasons.

1) Request of proof is made because someone is bragging

2) Request of proof is made because someone is suspected of lying

3) Request of proof is made to attempt to dismiss someone that has a difference of opinion about a trading topic or none trading topic

4) Request of proof is made when someone is very knowledgeable about a specific trading topic(s) beyond the understanding of the typical ET member

5) Request of proof is made when someone has already provided proof (e.g. live calls, broker statements, tax records). Seriously, I've seen this happen a few times here at ET by folks that just aren't satisfy with the proof that was provided. This is the least common reason.

The above reasons are the most common reasons I've seen used here at this forum of reasons why someone would directly request proof or indirectly (very suggestive) about why someone should provide proof.

Like I say in another thread. It takes two to tangle. If someone truly wasn't requesting or suggesting anything...they'll stop talking about it. Just the same, if someone didn't take it personally...they would not continue explaining why they don't need to provide proof beyond just saying it once...I don't need to provide proof.

The above is just my opinion and as a reminder...this thread is now way off topic and probably the OP (zeon12) should just request for it to be closed unless traders from Singapore show up to give him advice on how he can reach his 100k account capital goal.

I've now expressed my opinion and I'll gladly depart zeon's thread because I think the topic has ran its course considering it has really changed into a completely different topic.

 

[VIXTrader]

Actually, you're suggesting that he should provide a track record via you saying the above via statements like "either provide proof or don't talk the game".

Suggestive, yes I agree. But again it's not for me, I really don't care. It's more just, the guy himself has said that he's been asked to do this since he arrived on this chat forum and it continues to this day as evidenced by the fact that it happened in this thread (before I said a word by the way) It seems to be an endless stream of people saying the same thing.

I'm just analyzing it based on what I've seen in viewing only a tiny percentage of his posts. Yes, he absolutely should provide proof at this point if he's going to talk that way.

Not for me, for his own peace of mind. He said it's so common it's getting old. Yeah, no #&$@ it's getting old. I'm not at all surprised so many people say prove it.

For example, I don't hang out with my neighbor across the street but I know he's a judge and he's not even a friend.

Terrible analogy. If you were a judge and your neighbor was also a judge and you guys worked together and talked every day, you'd both know a lot more about each others job, style, background, and record as a judge in whatever court. I'm not saying everyone has to know everyones business, that's silly.

I'm saying 10 guys sharing a trading desk for over 5 years would ABSOLUTELY know a lot about each others trading habits, styles, and performance. If they don't, the problem is him. Worked alongside 10 other traders for 5 years and they don't know a thing about his track record? Sounds like a real gem of a personality.


As the old saying goes, if I had a dime for every... blah blah blah. You know

 

[kut2k2]

Well I didn't care before, but now it's getting a little interesting... I'm not going to read your 2300 posts, especially since it doesn't appear that very many people have liked that many of your posts, but...

Means absolutely nothing. The Like system only started about a month before you joined. The large majority of my posts (and I imagine EPrado's posts) were before the fall of 2014. I can count on two hands the number of my old posts that have received likes. Most people only read and like fresh posts.

 

[Vindago]

Bah, I don't need or care for any proof of success from any trader on ET as by just reading what is written I usually get a pretty good idea who is trading successfully and who is bulshitting.

It is an acquired skill and an important one IMO...

But then, even if you had the proof that a Trader was successful what difference would that make to you?

I read, and I decide what is relevant and what is not. the same with Trading I do my own thing and try to figure out how to get consistent, yes I am not consistent at this time.

I observe and do, sometimes I screw up (I know my weaknesses in trading and I am working on them) and that is a sad opportunity to learn (about what not to do!).

so, do your own thing, read what's posted and select what seems relavat to you and leave the rest, easy, no?

 

[EPrado]

Means absolutely nothing. The Like system only started about a month before you joined. The large majority of my posts (and I imagine EPrado's posts) were before the fall of 2014. I can count on two hands the number of my old posts that have received likes. Most people only read and like fresh posts.

I didn't realize it was that late. I thought it was much earlier than 2014. Kind of blows a hole in that theory of his. Honestly who really gives a crap about likes and all of that. I mean I have 28 followers to his 5, does that mean I am a better poster ????


At the end of the day all of the following and likes stuff is not the way to judge someone.

 

[Q3D]

Can someone link me to a website showing or claiming a discretionary retail day trader has demonstrated consistent profitability with an increasing equity curve over a ten-year span?

If there is no precedent for stable and increasing decade-long profitability then this is not a career but a hobby or at best a transient job in the same sense as a poker player's job and all posters who refer to this as a career should refrain from using that word. Aside from the unspoken starting capital requirements not found in careers, how many careers seem to REQUIRE multiple sources of income over a decade and multi-decade span?

 

[Q3D]

Does anyone even have any anecdotal evidence to share, if not verified evidence, of a multi-decade (11 years or more) of consistently successful day trading as defined by having no negative, breakeven, or sub $5,000 net profit trading year since becoming profitable? Presumably most day traders pay $5,000 in commissions and fees over a year, if not more.

 

[VIXTrader]

Does anyone even have any anecdotal evidence to share, if not verified evidence, of a multi-decade (11 years or more) of consistently successful day trading as defined by having no negative, breakeven, or sub $5,000 net profit trading year since becoming profitable? Presumably most day traders pay $5,000 in commissions and fees over a year, if not more.

Well two things.

1) Very VERY few people have the kind of record you're talking about. Newbies to the game just don't understand how hard trading is over longer time frames. Over 10% a year for over 10 years is already really good. Over 15% for 15 years is getting into rare company. 20% for 20 years would put you in the world's elite.

It's amazing / disgusting how many new traders think because they had 2 or 3 good years that it somehow continues indefinitely. 3 years at 100% is a dime a dozen. 10 years at 10% with low standard deviations weeds out nearly everybody...


2) If you're asking for proof, you're not going to get it from very many people. Of the VERY few traders who actually do have that success, most can't provide that kind of proof because they don't audit their accounts, and those who can probably still won't. Speaking for myself, I prove my track record to potential clients by showing an 18 year audit of both my private trading account and the results of the overall fund. I've never taken a meeting without having it with me, but it's only shown to potential clients.

Chat forums are for shooting the shit and clowning on randoms, not for soliciting clients.



I may be wrong though. Maybe somebody will come along and provide the proof you want.

Until then, take my word for it, the type of successful track record you're talking about is truly rare and very very few people have been successful doing this for a living.

 

[londonkid]

It's fine to ask questions man, but this all started when I stated I said I am private and don't talk about how I do. I sat on the same desk with the same 10 guys for 5 years at one point. They never had a clue about how I did. Most of my good friends on that desk and in the trading world are that way. The guys who taught me were that way. There are plenty of clowns out there who do blab about themselves and proclaim greatness. I don't need to be part of that club.

As far as the last thing.....you are right...bad analogy....

This chimes with me. My experience of prop firms is the best traders are almost silent and never share secret sauce.

 

[Q3D]

Well two things.

1) Very VERY few people have the kind of record you're talking about. Newbies to the game just don't understand how hard trading is over longer time frames. Over 10% a year for over 10 years is already really good. Over 15% for 15 years is getting into rare company. 20% for 20 years would put you in the world's elite.

It's amazing / disgusting how many new traders think because they had 2 or 3 good years that it somehow continues indefinitely. 3 years at 100% is a dime a dozen. 10 years at 10% with low standard deviations weeds out nearly everybody...


2) If you're asking for proof, you're not going to get it from very many people. Of the VERY few traders who actually do have that success, most can't provide that kind of proof because they don't audit their accounts, and those who can probably still won't. Speaking for myself, I prove my track record to potential clients by showing an 18 year audit of both my private trading account and the results of the overall fund. I've never taken a meeting without having it with me, but it's only shown to potential clients.

Chat forums are for shooting the shit and clowning on randoms, not for soliciting clients.



I may be wrong though. Maybe somebody will come along and provide the proof you want.

Until then, take my word for it, the type of successful track record you're talking about is truly rare and very very few people have been successful doing this for a living.

Are you talking about trading in general or just day trading? My understanding from master day trading salesmen is that day trading the ES futures or FOREX for a decade has a higher probability of guaranteeing an increasing equity curve than say, swing or position trading biotech stocks, due to stable and predictable pattern repetition over time. I guess you're suggesting price is random or dependent on inside knowledge, which would explain the 10 years of 10% equity returns weeding out most all traders.