If anyone you care about has severe refractory depression problems, HERE IS THE CURE:

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

No one can force another person to recover...

Plenty of willing AA members are not in recovery, though they claim to be working a program.

AA is not a cult by itself or by design, though some members have tried to make their local chapters or groups cult like.

Once again, we have very flawed human beings, by their own admission, running AA chapters.

Just like so much else in life and in instutions, there is good and bad, as good and bad people rise to positions of power and authority.

Quote from roberk:

Alcoholics Anonymous: Cult or Cure?
and
Resisting 12-Step Coercion : How to Fight Forced Participation in AA, NA, or 12-Step Treatment
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1884365124/104-2879063-2303932?v=glance&n=283155&v=glance
""Further, not only is AA not successful to over 95% of those that try it, it's the LEAST successful program out there! And, to go even further, not only is it the least successful program out there, it's even DETRIMENTAL! Harvard University released a study that said 77-82% of those that quit successfully do it without AA. The 5% that AA is successful for are the 5% of those that remain members. Not necessarily SOBER members, just members. Relapses, according to the AA data, have nothing to do with counting the success rate.

THe problem is that AA and the twelve-step system have infiltrated our country. That sounds extreme, but it's true. Who comes to our kids' schools to talk about drug abuse? "Recovering" addicts. Who represents the treatment industry on TV and in the media? "Recovering" drug addicts. Who, reading these reviews, has not been consistently exposed to the phrases, "working the program", "It works if you work it", "let go and let God"? I have never had an addiction problem, but even I knew of these slogans. AA has been accepted as the answer to addiction. However, it's a cult. ""

 

[acronym]

You have to look at church funding channels and government complicity to establish why AA is numero uno in the administration of any kind of "addiction " programs.
It is a cult by design, and nature, for sure.

But whats that got to do with "severe refractory depression" , apart from causing it via the strangulation of alternative programs, and the capitulation of scientifically based treatments?

 

[deepbluefaq]

Quote from Rearden Metal:

Like religion, MDMA, and inhaled chloroform- I am <b>100% immune </b>to any form of hypnosis or hypnotherapy.

anyone can be hypnotised, its relative to the hypnotists skill, not a function of the subject. I'm sure you sleep and daydream. Intelligent, analytical & creative people are easier. Chances are, you saw a dud hypnotist or didnt see one at all.
Misinformation about required rapport with a subject, to enable hypnosis, is a myth

It is identical to one claiming immunity to bullets through the brain.

As harsh as ZZZzzz might appear, he may have some valid points

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Well, I beg to differ about AA being a cult by design and nature.

If you explore dangerous cults you will find many active elements of cults that simply are not part of AA.

Yes, there are some aspects of AA that could be viewed as cult like, but so are some aspects of the republican party at one of their national conventions.

On the whole, there is no active brainwashing or brainwashing methods used in AA.

Can some individuals take the AA technology to an extreme?

Sure, why not? We see extremist thinkers everywhere who preach some totalitarian thought process.

People come and go in AA at will, something that simply doesn't happen with cults.

There is no central charismatic leader, no secrets, no dogmatism that people have to follow in order to be an active AA member (the only requirement for membership in AA is a desire not to drink) no dues or fees are required for membership, no demands of time to be spent propagating the AA technology, etc.

The list goes on and on of elements that make AA different from cults who actively use deception to recruit members.

Really, it does a tremendous disservice to AA and other organizations that seek to help those who need to help to call them a "cult" without any real foundation to do so.

AA is what it is, a solid principle that helps people who suffer from addictions that is being implemented by flawed people at various states of their own recovery.

They seek progress, not perfection....

Quote from acronym:

You have to look at church funding channels and government complicity to establish why AA is numero uno in the administration of any kind of "addiction " programs.
It is a cult by design, and nature, for sure.

But whats that got to do with "severe refractory depression" , apart from causing it via the strangulation of alternative programs, and the capitulation of scientifically based treatments?

 

[acronym]

Perhaps i should point out, i regard anything with referance to deities or prophets of any discription as "cults", for they most certainly are. All the AA stuff ive seen has "god " in there somewhere.

Thats not a problem, in and of itself, except there is scant evidence of alternative non-or quasi religious programs.
Again, it comes down to a chicken and egg scenario, looking at why addiction occurs.
Doctors are paid to say grog, drugs etc are depressants, but i maintain causal factors are the key, and if they involve anyone other than yourself, then saying "im an alco, im a worthless pile of garbage", is just lousy self deceit, and entirely destructive.

It was in the joke thread i think,
"Depression is just anger, without enthusiasm".

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

AA does not require belief in God or any particular God to be a member or attend meetings.

Many people who have issues with God or the word God use the term "higher power" and make something secular in nature their higher power. No one is forced to believe anything in AA, that is hardly cultish as active cults require members to be of a certain belief system...

Quote from acronym:

Perhaps i should point out, i regard anything with referance to deities or prophets of any discription as "cults", for they most certainly are. All the AA stuff ive seen has "god " in there somewhere.

Thats not a problem, in and of itself, except there is scant evidence of alternative non-or quasi religious programs.
Again, it comes down to a chicken and egg scenario, looking at why addiction occurs.
Doctors are paid to say grog, drugs etc are depressants, but i maintain causal factors are the key, and if they involve anyone other than yourself, then saying "im an alco, im a worthless pile of garbage", is just lousy self deceit, and entirely destructive.

It was in the joke thread i think,
"Depression is just anger, without enthusiasm".

 

[resinate]

Quote from deepbluefaq:

anyone can be hypnotised, its relative to the hypnotists skill, not a function of the subject. I'm sure you sleep and daydream. Intelligent, analytical & creative people are easier. Chances are, you saw a dud hypnotist or didnt see one at all.
Misinformation about required rapport with a subject, to enable hypnosis, is a myth

It is identical to one claiming immunity to bullets through the brain.

As harsh as ZZZzzz might appear, he may have some valid points

Its my understanding that to be hypnotized requires a significant degree of suggestibility. Its not like sleep where the conscious mind is off and unable to function as a barrier to the unconscious mind.

What today is the "modern" field of psychiatry and psychotherapy began with hypnotherapy as the first approach. It worked only sometimes, even in the best hands. That is why its still just one of many treatments that works for certain individuals. Not a magic bullet.

 

[acronym]

Perhaps you should re-read your post on page 12.
And, what exactly does this have to do with depression?
I maintain, at the very least, that severe manic phase depression requires a kick in the guts.
Im not certain about "severe refractory depression", because most depressives (like myself) have learnt to live with it to some extent-but nothing short of horse tranquillisers (or opiates?) are going to "work "in immediate effect, when it hits the fan, to suggest otherwise is to display your ignorance in what might be an un-"caring" fashion, as you put it.
And that is not a reality addressed by either the medical profession, nor the AA abstinence god-botherer types.
I didnt think this thread was about religion, but the fact you use the word "secular" in any context is to acknowledge the biggest cults of all, and your slavish mental servitude to these inhuman ideologies, even if by passing reference.

Peace and goodwill to all .

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

"I didn't think this thread was about religion, but the fact you use the word "secular" in any context is to acknowledge the biggest cults of all, and your slavish mental servitude to these inhuman ideologies, even if by passing reference."

Threads become what they will, and one possible direction offered in this thread is the recovery from depression via something other than drug addiction and chemical dependency.

I use the word secular to demonstrate that belief in God or a religion is not required to for anyone to be an AA member, nor to practice the 12 step recovery program, nor to achieve sobriety.

That you envision some "slavish mental servitude to inhuman ideologies" makes me wonder if you actually read what has been posted.

Believe it or not, many addicts actually feel liberated from the slavery of their mental and physical dependency on their drug of choice, not bound and gagged to a particular inhuman ideology.

Perhaps "as a depressive" you think of chemical addiction as the height of humanity, I tend see it in a reverse order with chemical addiction being at the lower end of human potential.

Quote from acronym:

Perhaps you should re-read your post on page 12.
And, what exactly does this have to do with depression?
I maintain, at the very least, that severe manic phase depression requires a kick in the guts.
Im not certain about "severe refractory depression", because most depressives (like myself) have learnt to live with it to some extent-but nothing short of horse tranquillisers (or opiates?) are going to "work "in immediate effect, when it hits the fan, to suggest otherwise is to display your ignorance in what might be an un-"caring" fashion, as you put it.
And that is not a reality addressed by either the medical profession, nor the AA abstinence god-botherer types.
I didnt think this thread was about religion, but the fact you use the word "secular" in any context is to acknowledge the biggest cults of all, and your slavish mental servitude to these inhuman ideologies, even if by passing reference.

Peace and goodwill to all .

 

[deepbluefaq]

Quote from resinate:
Its my understanding that to be hypnotized requires a significant degree of suggestibility. Its not like sleep where the conscious mind is off and unable to function as a barrier to the unconscious mind.

From my previous post, "Misinformation about required rapport with a subject, to enable hypnosis, is a myth."
Ones brain has a few filters to help us cope with excess information. One of which, compares the information with that which is already thought of as fact [critical judgment], and blocks what is believed by the subconscious, to be erroneous information. Hypnosis bypasses this filter, and allows the hypnotist to offer (or force) some new ones. Once someone is hypnotised, I can force them to eat an onion like they think its the most delicious apple they've evern seen and they havent eaten in days.