I was a senior trader. Now I’m a programmer. Here’s why

trader99 · Apr 17, 2018

https://news.efinancialcareers.com/us-en/312931/algo-trader-trading-programmer-coding/?mi_u=546,535,002&utm_campaign=JS_EDI_MC&utm_source=AMS_US_ENG&utm_medium=EM_NW&mi_locale=us-en

"I had a great 25-year run as a Wall Street trader, but I have had to adapt to stay relevant. I have focused on learning to code in C#, C++, Java, R, Python, HTML5, .NET Framework, T-SQL and others in order to appeal to employers in the financial services industry. Now I’m coder instead.

Trading is a dying business. Electronic trading is growing. Every human trader still has to compete against many other human traders for a shrinking number of seats. Everyone is facing decreasing margins, so unless you can code, grasp data science and have other quantitative skills, forget about job security.

Big banks from Goldman and RBS to UBS and Nomura have replaced most of their equity traders with IT guys, market-making off of the automated-trading programs. It makes sense in this environment when it’s almost a liability to have the traders making public markets, because there’s a greater chance for them to skirt the rules. Now they can tell a regulator, “The algorithmic-trading program screwed up,” as opposed having to a human trader with fat fingers to blame."

Xela · Apr 17, 2018

His perspective seems perfectly reasonable to me, in the sense that if someone's primary ambition is to get a job and be an employee, programming clearly offers more opportunities than trading.

That's a limited perspective, though: it's limited by the reality that he's only comparing overall prospects of "getting a job trading" with those "getting a job programming". That's a very different thing from comparing the prospects of "earning a living trading" and "earning a living programming" (in that one comparison specifically excludes all consideration of self-employment possibilities while the other doesn't).

I'm "just saying" ... :sneaky:

qxr1011 · Apr 17, 2018

===I was a senior trader. Now I’m a programmer. Here’s why===

we know why: most institutional traders do not know how to make money on the market on they own, since most of them are zero without the institution

QuasWexExort · Apr 17, 2018

From what he writes I actually doubt he was ever a "trader" in the sense that his pure P/L of his trading decisions is his income. He proudly worked orders or took calls from those actually making the decision.

trader99 · Apr 17, 2018

Xela said:
His perspective seems perfectly reasonable to me, in the sense that if someone's primary ambition is to get a job and be an employee, programming clearly offers more opportunities than trading.

That's a limited perspective, though: it's limited by the reality that he's only comparing overall prospects of "getting a job trading" with those "getting a job programming". That's a very different thing from comparing the prospects of "earning a living trading" and "earning a living programming" (in that one comparison specifically excludes all consideration of self-employment possibilities while the other doesn't).

I'm "just saying" ...

I totally agreed with your points. I was just merely posting an industry news article. Most people don't have enough trading skills period(manual or auto trading). Even for people who work at these banks, they are just using their tech skills and getting paid for them, but NOT all are actually working on trading strategies. Having a real edge is much more difficult. But support roles using tech is more plentiful.

lawrence-lugar · Apr 17, 2018

Programmer traders are akin to city Politicians ...setting rules and laws and regulations and structure to suit their ideal, calm, somewhat trouble-free, care-free, free-flowing environment.

But for the select few who are willing to bet somewhat big, and aggressively...and have the skill and wisdom and experience to pull it off...they can make very handsome loot by trading themselves discretionarily.

Very few people are true traders...most, if not all, employees at big banks and investment banks...are scalpers. or commission brokers.
Kind of like a small, local, home real estate office. You generate a small, fixed %, for performing a service.
You don't need brains or skill to do that robotic, linear job.

it's the exact same process each time.

Scataphagos · Apr 17, 2018

O

trader99 said:
Everyone is facing decreasing margins, so unless you can code, grasp data science and have other quantitative skills, forget about job security.

Or... you could learn "Price TA".

DaveV · Apr 17, 2018

I was a senior programmer. Now I'm a trader.

For many years I was a programmer, specializing in realtime systems. I even wrote part of the Nasdaq platform, though I doubt that any of my code still survives there. Now I trade fuil time, using only software that I wrote myself. This gives me an edge that most other traders don't have.

Scataphagos · Apr 17, 2018

trader99 said:
"I had a great 25-year run as a Wall Street trader,

What is that, exactly? Your job is to execute trades for others... that's what makes you a "trader"??

Or did your livelihood (with either your capital or others') depend upon making "profitable market decisions while protecting capital"?

trader99 · Apr 17, 2018

Scataphagos said:
What is that, exactly? Your job is to executed trades for others... that's what makes you a "trader"??

Or did your livelihood (with either your capital or others') depend upon making "profitable market decisions while protecting capital"?

You must understand that most "traders" at banks are just execution traders. Those are the traders that have been replaced by machines.

Traders who run their own book are prop traders. Very few traders are prop traders at banks. After Volcker Rule, banks shut down their prop trading desks. Some of these prop traders move to hedge funds. Others start B&B or other biz. Or just quit the game period.