I think I figured out why trading can never work for so many people

[NoDoji]

Quote from emg:

And why small traders are gamblers? because they are poor. they have very little money to trade in a highly leverage volatility markets.

No, they're gamblers for the very reason stated in the clip you posted:

They're "...trying to make a buck by predicting.."

If you learn to recognize the big players tipping their hand, and let the action of price tell you where to enter so that the odds are in your favor, you're neither predicting what will happen on that particular trade nor are you gambling.

 

[MichaelPatak]

Quote from NoDoji:

No, they're gamblers for the very reason stated in the clip you posted:

They're "...trying to make a buck by predicting.."

If you learn to recognize the big players tipping their hand, and let the action of price tell you where to enter so that the odds are in your favor, you're neither predicting what will happen on that particular trade nor are you gambling.

NoDoji- I agree. There are traders and there are gamblers in the market everyday. We see people blow out and see people have a big day then proceed to spend the next week or even day giving it all back plus some and we see consistent traders.

I have been in this business awhile and around traders in the pits and electronic alike as well as watching 1000's of traders on a risk manager board. Seeing what works and what doesn't behind the curtain. The base hit traders that have a foundation of discipline and patience make it in this business. These are not the characteristics of a gambler. Instant gratification=Gambler... delayed gratification= the disciplined consistent trader.

It is so very hard to maintain focus, patience and disicipline day in and day out but very doable. Trading is a grind. It is not always fun but it is a damn great business when you can finally curb the gambler in you.

mp

 

[Pekelo]

(I kind of agree with him, but just for the sake of advocatus diaboli, let's play):

Hey emg, you are looking at it all wrong. You pessimist, see it as 72% to 79% of accounts lost money, an optimist may see it as 21% to 28% of the accounts made money.

But alright, you say, get more money to trade with and education. OK, where is the educated people with more money are? Hedge Funds!! OK so let's see how the HFs are doing, shall we?:


"2012:The HFRX, a widely used measure of industry returns, is up by just 3%, compared with an 18% rise in the S&P 500 share index. Although it might be possible to shrug off one year’s underperformance, the hedgies’ problems run much deeper.

The S&P 500 has now outperformed its hedge-fund rival for ten straight years, with the exception of 2008 when both fell sharply. A simple-minded investment portfolio--60% of it in shares and the rest in sovereign bonds--has delivered returns of more than 90% over the past decade, compared with a meagre 17% after fees for hedge funds."

http://www.businessinsider.com/hedge-fund-performance-2012-12

So there you have it, a 17% per DECADE return on average for HFs. Now that's what I call higher learning, education, more funds and what did you say? Math?

 

[HurricaneUS]

Quote from MichaelPatak:

NoDoji- I agree. There are traders and there are gamblers in the market everyday. We see people blow out and see people have a big day then proceed to spend the next week or even day giving it all back plus some and we see consistent traders.

I have been in this business awhile and around traders in the pits and electronic alike as well as watching 1000's of traders on a risk manager board. Seeing what works and what doesn't behind the curtain. The base hit traders that have a foundation of discipline and patience make it in this business. These are not the characteristics of a gambler. Instant gratification=Gambler... delayed gratification= the disciplined consistent trader.

It is so very hard to maintain focus, patience and disicipline day in and day out but very doable. Trading is a grind. It is not always fun but it is a damn great business when you can finally curb the gambler in you.

mp

you forgot one other characteristic....consistent traders have an edge...something they are able to do or something they know that very few other traders are able to do / know

 

[TheMagican]

EMG is correct and he`s doing a great job,here,on ET.I`d recommend EMG as a Guru to anyone.He starts with the great premise about the markets.Those who keep arguing with EMG are apparent and complete, delusional losers!

 

[MichaelPatak]

Quote from HurricaneUS:

you forgot one other characteristic....consistent traders have an edge...something they are able to do or something they know that very few other traders are able to do / know

Hurricane- I definitely agree. Sometimes this edge can be in the form of understanding themselves as a trader and their psyche not just some trading strategey they have etc.

Again this is all from dealing with them day in and day out; but ya definintely agree with you.

mp

 

[kinggyppo]

Quote from atticus:

Does this wind-up toy remind anyone of tango 6 alpha? Replace ES with EURUSD and you have a winner. Also talks about La Jolla.

if I could pull 32 ticks a day out of ZB I would be looking for a boat too a big one.

 

[Grandluxe]

Quote from emg:

here is the ultimate reason why small traders lose and will continue to lose by reloading their account or multiple accounts

And why vendors or shall i call them vampires targeting small traders? it is easy to ring a sale on small traders because small traders look at trading as gambling. When a small trader look at trading as gambling, vendors can easy advertise such as this

And why small traders are gamblers? because they are poor. they have very little money to trade in a highly leverage volatility markets. They have to gamble. Because they have to gamble, they become desperate. they are desperate looking for successful traders. they will do anything to have a successful trader teach them. this open the door for vampires (VENDORS) to hunt them.

Advanced MATH. Its the advanced technology bringing down the old school trading. Flushed the old school. bring in the bright new school

2 points EVERY single day on the ES is pure nonsense. Even if you AVERAGE 2 points a day, you are already some kind of trading superstar.

 

[Wallace]

fx trader profitability in Q4/13 ranged from 22.7% to 46.5% - or if you prefer -
losing traders ranged from 77.3% to 53.5% of US brokers' clients
http://forexmagnates.com/q4-2012-fo...rex-market-keeps-losing-brokers-and-accounts/

a trader enters a Buy in an index futures contract during March 09 , still holds the
position today, doubled a few times during the run-up

day to days to weeks trading is something most people can learn, with a little help
consider someone trading based on a 5min chart, during a 6 hour trading session
they will see 48 price bars go by, two hundred and forty price bars each week
the B&H trader looks at one new price bar each day, a far simpler trading process
to learn and trade, and with a lower capital risk

 

[atticus]

Quote from kinggyppo:

if I could pull 32 ticks a day out of ZB I would be looking for a boat too a big one.

It is only six trillion the first year, brah. You gotta stop thinking so small time.