I love the transparency of this market....

[newwurldmn]

Remember when Zuckerberg tried to create his own Twitter? It even had a great launch for the first few days, but then fell off a cliff. So the adoption is the hardest part.

Look at the hardforks that Bitcoin had in the past. They are all a fraction of the market cap of bitcoin. Some were even great with faster blocktime or more transactions per block, which are all good things if you ask me. But for some reason, they didn't stick.

Look at how much hashpower goes into bitcoin. How are you going to copy that?

There is simply no way to start again. Any project after bitcoin is not as decentralized, or the creators gave themselves free tokens, or its not based on PoW which is the way it has to be if you're going to want your project to be permission-less.

You will always hit a dead-end if you're brainstorming about how to make a new and better bitcoin and arrive at the same conclusion, which is to just adopt bitcoin. Something extremely catastrophic would have to happen in order for the majority to consider switching to something else, so I won't say I'm 100% certain that in 25 years Bitcoin will be on top, but waiting for something better is clearly stupid at this point.

Bitcoin is only worth anything because someone says it is.

At one point 10,000 bitcoin could buy you two pizzas. At another point it took only 5 bitcoin to buy a Lambo. At a later point you couldn't buy a toyota with a bitcoin.

I missed the crypto craze so i'm not the smartest guy in the room. I read about bitcoin in 2010 and thought to myself, why would i let anyone use my electricity and my computer for essentially free. That brilliant lack of vision is why i am a derivatives trader and not a tech billionaire.

 

[S2007S]

I think the price is rigged. Its deeply undervalued. There is no way you should be able to own a whole bitcoin for 40k when there are only ever going to be 21 million, for the entire world, and that number is much lower for various reasons.

If I buy paper gold, I understand why its so easy to sell it to me. But when I buy bitcoin, and those sats get sent to my address, I can verify that this amount of bitcoin is now mine, from the finite supply that is available. Trust me, soon we will also see what finite supply means.

Pump and dump operations works because bankers can manipulate things. Either governments purchases of stocks, like Robinhood did with GME, or they limit short selling, or they just cancel trades, like what happened at the LME. Buying bitcoin will soon be like buying the hottest gaming system on Xmas but finding out they are sold out. You can't bring your kids home a picture of the box.

I don't worry about pricing things in bitcoin. I'm sure I will be using USD and CAD for a long time, but the amount of fiat I will be able to exchange for my sats will always be going up and up. Maybe the government will have to start worrying about how to prevent the dollars from losing too much value, and not that I have to worry about pricing things in bitcoin.

So you are one the bitcoin believers of the magical coin going to 10 million. 27 million. 500 million or is it a billion?

 

[ktm]

What make you think the BTC system isn't rigged?

How do you explain an asset that can gain thousands of percent then lose 85% of its value? That sort of thing happens with pump and dump operations. Money flowing from dumb money to smart money. Do you really think things will change? The rich get richer!!

Can you live in a world where you are paid in bitcoin and merchandise is priced in bitcoin?

You sir need to go sit in the back of the room... LMAO!!!!

 

[Ed48]

Agreed... but the reason why its good is because it means that the true price of bitcoin cannot be suppressed, unlike gold for example, or pumped to the moon for artificial reasons, like real estate.

You say the price of Gold is suppressed/manipulated by paper Gold (derivatives).

What's to stop the price of Bitcoin in future being suppressed/manipulated by paper Bitcoin (derivatives)?

There's nothing special about Bitcoin which prevents it being swamped by a derivatives market (naked shorting and all that).

 

[alistera]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1749469149854572923

I truly believe that we are on the cusp of one of the biggest transformations in history. We have all learned now that the reason for this dip is the GBTC selling, and its all right there for everyone to see. I thought I read somewhere that the inflows to the other ETFs have been even bigger than the outflows, so not sure why the price is dropping, but it certainly isn't dropping hard at all. At no other time in history could we get this level of transparency in the financial markets. I think the ETFs are fucking awesome. Sure, people don't own the keys to their coins, but these funds are literally going to hide away a significant number of coins, and thereby increase the price even faster since price is always set at the margins.

But what gets me most excited is that all the banks and financial institutions can't fuck around like they used to. There cannot be any sweetheart deals to paper over problems, etc. Coins have to be purchased and this will obviously show up in the blockchain. Heck, even JPMorgan should be happy because they don't have to worry about finding rocks instead of nickel in a warehouse. But what this means is that the old way of doing business is coming to an end.

One of the things I'm finding out about myself is that I'm in bitcoin for the truth. Yes, "number go up" is awesome, and financial gains are awesome, but when you're forced to have to play by the rules and the truth of transactions is enforced, it will lead to incredible amounts of prosperity. For those who used to get by on rigging the system are going to have to either change their ways, or disappear.

This GBTC selling will eventually end, and I'm even hoping prices go lower to be honest. The last supply shock to hit might be the Mt. Gox coins, and after that, there is literally no supply.

Yet maybe not, simply because the institutional price for crypto when absorbed in to the fiat world is $2k to $5k depending on the metrics used, everyone wanted crypto to be more accessible to the public, be careful what you wish for.

Sure it could spike up to $150k which is where everything points but would first have to drop to $15k to sustain it opening up the lower institutional ranges, and not crypto institutions or firms but real asset class institutions.

You see, I've spoken to some of the "good ones" mostly funds in crypto who were interested in the arbitrage have access, those firms target 70-100% per year returns but, they run as prop firms outsourcing to traders, which obviously induces major whipsaws in their nav.

The investors along with the traders who partner with these crypto non-hedge funds have no clue, most of the funds spoke to are fixated on maker taker fees, but if you have a strategy that is consistent these just become a cost of business, try explaining it to these people and you can actually see the smoke stacks as their little ZX Spectrums try to process the information.

This is the state of the crypto industry and once some deep-dive is performed on these firms many will go under because they require forever higher crypto prices, which is the opposite direction to where the current price is with mainstream adoption, happy days.

 

[NoahA]

Bitcoin is only worth anything because someone says it is.

If I get paid in USD, and hence I exert energy to work all day and make $100, I am converting my labour for something that will hopefully have value. Then when the government just prints it, they devalue my labour at their discretion. The fact that bitcoin can't be printed and has a fixed supply and release schedule means there won't be any surprises, and this means that it has a much better chance of keeping its value. If the whole world turns away from using bitcoin, then yes, the value will drop. But I would much rather let the market decide this for me, rather than my government who is absolutely always trying to screw me.

Also, the way the monetary system works today, is that its inflationary and debt based, and this is at direct odds with where technology is taking the world, which is a deflationary world. Everything should be getting cheaper. But since the government has to steal your money, it means this savings isn't coming to you. The money is broken, and isn't working for most people. Only the well connected and upper part of society gets to experience the gains while the lower part has to finance this.

 

[NoahA]

You say the price of Gold is suppressed/manipulated by paper Gold (derivatives).

What's to stop the price of Bitcoin in future being suppressed/manipulated by paper Bitcoin (derivatives)?

There's nothing special about Bitcoin which prevents it being swamped by a derivatives market (naked shorting and all that).

People do say that this is a worry, but spot bitcoin is what all prices should be set from, and spot bitcoin can be easily delivered and verified. Its not like most people take delivery of their gold. So its much easier to verify if the parties actually have what they say they have.

 

[newwurldmn]

If I get paid in USD, and hence I exert energy to work all day and make $100, I am converting my labour for something that will hopefully have value. Then when the government just prints it, they devalue my labour at their discretion. The fact that bitcoin can't be printed and has a fixed supply and release schedule means there won't be any surprises, and this means that it has a much better chance of keeping its value. If the whole world turns away from using bitcoin, then yes, the value will drop. But I would much rather let the market decide this for me, rather than my government who is absolutely always trying to screw me.

Also, the way the monetary system works today, is that its inflationary and debt based, and this is at direct odds with where technology is taking the world, which is a deflationary world. Everything should be getting cheaper. But since the government has to steal your money, it means this savings isn't coming to you. The money is broken, and isn't working for most people. Only the well connected and upper part of society gets to experience the gains while the lower part has to finance this.

im not an economist so I don’t pretend to understand this stuff. But the gold standard was essentially like bitcoin and it caused volatile inflation. Volatile inflation is bad. You can’t plan. We saw a small glimmer of this 2 years ago, but the last 50 years have been pretty clean. That is you know how much you need to retire. Who knows what that would equate in gold, bitcoin, or tangerines?

 

[NoahA]

im not an economist so I don’t pretend to understand this stuff. But the gold standard was essentially like bitcoin and it caused volatile inflation. Volatile inflation is bad. You can’t plan. We saw a small glimmer of this 2 years ago, but the last 50 years have been pretty clean. That is you know how much you need to retire. Who knows what that would equate in gold, bitcoin, or tangerines?

Yes, the guaranteed debasement of the USD has been slow and steady, with bouts of sharp drops.

The gold standard had to be removed because the US could no longer give away gold that other European countries were asking for in exchange for their USD. The government is spending way more than we think, so instead of collecting taxes, they have to debase the currency and fund all the bullshit in this way.

There is no hope for retirement for many people anymore, and lots of seniors are back to working because they just can't make ends meet anymore. So this system is on its last legs.

 

[NoahA]

If you are at all curious, there are excellent books written by bitcoiners on exactly why the current system is trash. They of course talk about bitcoin, but the idea is to discuss how we got to needing bitcoin and how fiat is the root of all evil.