I have been censored and kicked out of LinkedIn after decades :-)

Bugenhagen · Aug 4, 2023

fullautotrading said:
Perhaps the "more" latitude is the problem. Just set no boundaries (apart from the law and a general principle of respect for others, obviously).

Yeah.. But so many internet vocal people are awful and twist things claiming to be the victim and fair minded one.

fullautotrading · Aug 4, 2023

Bugenhagen said:
Yeah.. But so many internet vocal people are awful and twist things claiming to be the victim and fair minded one.

View attachment 320187

That is true too, Bugenhagen.

Exactly for that reason, and a few more, it is important to allow a free debate, without wanting to "win" by simply removing anyone suggesting a different view, and also important to provide the proper graphic layout and space to allow the proper expansion of thoughts and evidence.

One cannot debate with short "tweets" pretending to be too important and too busy to articulate a thought.

What they do not have is not time (they have plenty): it's the logic and the intellectual honesty to debate and articulate their reasons (if any).

When you remove your opponent, you are often already declaring to the entire world that you have problems or are at a loss.

If your debater is blatantly either a retard or a crook (say he says that the earth is flat, he can levitate, or he is consistently making 60% per year from the market by pure legit trading activity), you do not need to remove him/her, because anyone, with minimal competence on the subjects, can see where he stands and what he is doing.

If you have the arguments and evidence to sustain your point of view or thesis, it is in your best interest that your thesis and other people's thesis are transparently well expounded in proper layout, so that the collective intelligence (not shills or paid employees or paid articles on journals where you make paid people say you are a "genius") will, in time, put everything in the right perspective for a more useful and mature view to emerge, in due time.

People with the need to "suppress", instead of debating, have already lost all their arguments in the face of anyone looking at it.

They are not gods. They are simply people with issues: often sociopaths and autocrats.

themickey · Aug 4, 2023

fullautotrading said:
People with the need to "suppress", instead of debating, have already lost all their arguments in the face of anyone looking at it.

I see it a different way.
On a chat forum you'll always get vocal idiots, they are drawn toward being the centre of attention.
Now some people will block the idiots because there is just nothing to gain other than being pulled into never ending arguments.
Others with more stamina, will take the idiot head on and prove them wrong countless times, but perhaps fruitlessly as the idiot will twist and turn with more bs.

Both parties have merits, the blocker won't give the idiot attention nor waste time arguing.
The debaters, they have merit too, because mostly they will have well thought out arguments and expose the idiots.

I suppose the loser is the forum owner, I can't see them profiting from nonsense noise on their forum, because too much nonsense drives intelligent people away..

fullautotrading · Aug 4, 2023

themickey said:
I see it a different way.
On a chat forum you'll always get vocal idiots, they are drawn toward being the centre of attention.
Now some people will block the idiots because there is just nothing to gain other than being pulled into never ending arguments.
Others with more stamina, will take the idiot head on and prove them wrong countless times, but perhaps fruitlessly as the idiot will twist and turn with more bs.

Both parties have merits, the blocker won't give the idiot attention nor waste time arguing.
The debaters, they have merit too, because mostly they will have well thought out arguments and expose the idiots.

I suppose the loser is the forum owner, I can't see them profiting from nonsense noise on their forum, because too much nonsense drives intelligent people away..

Well, the idiot does his "job" of being an idiot, and he is functional to the system

The goal is not to convince him or to convert anyone to a different religion.

The goal is simply to allow the expression of different points of view. And not selectively suppress any small utterance against your propaganda and agenda.

If your goal is to make intelligent a "retard", or to make "wise" someone not too experienced, you will often be headed for immediate failure.

The goal, instead, is to allow a fair representation of all points of view. Also, for each given topic or field, not all people are "true" retards. Sometimes we feel someone is a "retard", but after thinking deeper about it, we realize that actually we were the retards and he was just way ahead in his journey.

The goal of a social network is not to change a single individual, but to allow the transparent expression of different points of view. Hopefully, given enough time and enough collective competence, a more fair representation will emerge.

The maintainer of a forum allowing transparency will never lose, imho, as he is part of a greater universal plan. Immediate profit may be nothing in the grand scheme of things

In the seventies, with all the hammering propaganda, we were sure that in 2001 there would be flying cars and an "Odyssey in Space"

Now, some people think that robots with "AI" will dominate Earth

while at the same time, they do not have the slightest idea of what intelligence and consciousness are.

Now, in 2023, we are still on Earth pushing the keys of our little keyboards, but what really has expanded is networking, collective intelligence, and awareness.

This seems to point to a deeper truth...

themickey · Aug 4, 2023

fullautotrading said:
The goal is not to convince him or to convert anyone to a different religion.

....religion my favorite subject..... hahaha

fullautotrading said:
but what really has expanded is networking, collective intelligence, and awareness.

Sounds to me like the Tower of Babal, hahaha

Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinarb and settled there.
..... 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”
5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”
8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world.....

Cabin111 · Aug 4, 2023

"Gilligan drop those coconuts"!! "OK Skipper"...Bam bam bam "Not on my head you idiot"!!

William F. Buckley Jr. it will not be...

Bugenhagen · Aug 4, 2023

fullautotrading said:
That is true too, Bugenhagen.

Exactly for that reason, and a few more, it is important to allow a free debate, without wanting to "win" by simply removing anyone suggesting a different view, and also important to provide the proper graphic layout and space to allow the proper expansion of thoughts and evidence.

One cannot debate with short "tweets" pretending to be too important and too busy to articulate a thought.

What they do not have is not time (they have plenty): it's the logic and the intellectual honesty to debate and articulate their reasons (if any).

When you remove your opponent, you are often already declaring to the entire world that you have problems or are at a loss.

If your debater is blatantly either a retard or a crook (say he says that the earth is flat, he can levitate, or he is consistently making 60% per year from the market by pure legit trading activity), you do not need to remove him/her, because anyone, with minimal competence on the subjects, can see where he stands and what he is doing.

If you have the arguments and evidence to sustain your point of view or thesis, it is in your best interest that your thesis and other people's thesis are transparently well expounded in proper layout, so that the collective intelligence (not shills or paid employees or paid articles on journals where you make paid people say you are a "genius") will, in time, put everything in the right perspective for a more useful and mature view to emerge, in due time.

People with the need to "suppress", instead of debating, have already lost all their arguments in the face of anyone looking at it.

They are not gods. They are simply people with issues: often sociopaths and autocrats.

Censorship is simply the hiding of information and there are a few ways to achieve this. The classic censorship and the not quite modern but hugely amplified by social media "swamping the zone" approach. America has been particularly lazy keeping it's village idiots and "weaponized autistics" as Bannon coined out of the world's face.

There were warnings of course. Being There to Idiocracy all tried to forewarn..

Well we are certainly in the garden now, up to our noses in weeds.

So I can only see calls for more licence for people to talk out their hats as not a solution., just what the propogandists want. It's like more guns are a panacea.