I guess Trump is gonna get questioned by Mueller
- Thread starter Cuddles
- Start date
We're not, at least I'm not, talking about the DOJ prosecuting Trump while he is President. That won't happen. What will happen is that Mueller will wait until after the mid-term and present his report to the New Congress in late January or February, unless of course his hand is forced before then.. This business about DOJ rules re the indictability of a president are only a curiosity there for the benefit of the President's bedtime reading and to help soothe him to sleep. The DOJ opinion has no impact here because the Congress will decide whether to impeach, and the Senate will decide whether to remove from office. If he is removed, the DOJ can then indict him (he is no longer president), or alternatively Mr. Pence could pardon him. It would take an independent Federal Prosecutor to indict a sitting President, and we don't have one in the present instance. This stuff about DOJ rules and opinions re 'can the President be indicted?' is moot. Of course the president can be indicted. After he is out of office by the DOJ, and while he is in office be an independent prosecutor, but not by the DOJ.
The DOJ's opinion seems to give weight to "The Unitary Executive" concept, suggesting that even an independent prosecutor could not indict a sitting president. But it is just a concept and opinion uncodified in law. The law, until a statutory law dealing with this subject is enacted, is silent. And that includes Constitutional law. There is nothing per se to bar a sitting president from being indicted, but there is something that would bar the DOJ from indicting a sitting President. That, however, has nothing to do with DOJ opinion or rules.
I would say that in both the question of whether a sitting President can be indicted or whether a sitting President can pardon himself, although the law is silent, "originalism" speaks clearly and loudly; To Wit: A sitting president can be indicted, but not by the DOJ; A sitting President can not pardon himself.*
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*I have not given any specific reasons other than indicating that these conclusions hark back to the original intent of the Founders, and to consideration of conflict of interest. It does not take a particularly clever person , however, to deduce the reasons by considering the intent of the Founders. Naturally, new statutory law could be used to counter the intentions of the Founders. I personally think that would be a bad idea. Something this fundamental should only be enacted by amending the Constitution. Let us hope that such an Amendment is never enacted.
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You're right and wrong. Of course the Framers did not intend to protect a sitting President that illegally gained the office. But of course it is highly unlikely the Founders envisioned a Congress such as the current one. Passing the buck to Congress is the only way Mueller can proceed if we are still undr the rule of law. He isn't an 'independent prosecutor', and DOJ can't prosecute their boss. If Mueller's investigation turns up evidence that the President committed serious crimes, and I am confident it will, he has to go to Congress rather than DOJ, because the President will be unenthusiastic about seeing himself prosecuted. The DOJ is part of the Executive Branch.*
For that reason Mueller will wait until after the Mid-term election and then let the chips fall where they may, unless of course his hand is forced.
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* Regarding the Presidents lack of enthusiasm, you should feel confident in trusting me.
In the law we have lines. For example the legal line for adulthood is 18 years old. And these lines are imperfect but they exist.
The truth is the Supreme Court can rule anyway they want to and that is the law. I think there is a legal line here and argument of the office of the presidency does not protect the occupant from prosecution if the crime is illegal means in obtaining the office.
I’m not saying I’m right, just logically to me this makes sense because if Mueller comes back with evidence of conspiracy to defraud the American people and congress does not act our political system will be shot to shot and every politician running for president will go the illegal route.
We know which one is more likely to result in an investigation, and which one will get the "HQ Special Look-the-Other-Way" Treatment, don't we?
As discussed several times, you are johnny-come-lately to both the legal realizations and the fact that Mueller is following a political strategy- of which the legal strategy is just a supporting role.
All your recent googling has given you little intellectual bursts that you are anxious to dump on us but it would have been better to just smarten up over a year ago.
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Well of course, you guys are not rocket scientists. And fortunately for you, this is not rocket science. If you go back and look at my early posts, and then wait for another 6 months from now you will see that I had it exactly right from the start: Money Laundering and Tax Evasion. I left the door open regarding the extent of quid pro quo with the Russian goal of getting rid of sanctions. I did say from day one that Russians were effectively blackmailing Trump, but I didn't know the details. I learned a little later that all his funding after his major bankruptcy was coming from Russians. The dullest simpleton could put this together.
Robert Mueller is far from a dull simpleton. He put it together very early on. He just had to develop irrefutable proof. The one thing where I am still not sure if I was wrong or not is when I suggested that the Trump campaign might have even paid for some of the Russian Hacking. That is a bit of a stretch. But we will see. Did Cohen go to Prague, and if he did, why? These are very serious matters. In prior times they could have landed a person in front of a firing squad.
I think the question of why has already been answered. It's a combination of financial desperation on Trump's part and out of control narcissism. A well balanced person would never have gotten their selves into the predicament he was in, and they certainly wouldn't have called attention to themselves by running for president. This is going to end as a very juicy chapter in history books.
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The concern you raise is why I think many believe this current crisis in government represents a crossroads. I am concerned.
Wow , piezoe completely ignored your little tantrum , you should have just posted this pic you like to use instead.
Wow , piezoe completely ignored your little tantrum , you should have just posted this pic you like to use instead.
Very appropriate pic.
Thank you for posting it again.
We know an allegation with merit is likely to have an investigation.