I feel like giving up!

[steven21]

Quote from Cheese:

Trading markets defeats most amateur traders - just a matter of time, either quickly or more slowly.

Yet the logic required to win is simple enough. Lets ask the basic questions applying to an amateur.
What is my obvious restriction: limited capital.
What should I be doing: daytrading.
Why should I choose daytrading: to access the most number of points per day.
Where are the most points: in the daily gyrations, the intraday swings from open to close.
So what market do I choose: a volatile and liquid futures market (eg CL).
What essentially will I be doing: taking the most points you can from each swing.
How do I do that: adopt or devise a reliable methodology
How do I get to that methodology: to get there it needs your time and focus where you must rigorously get to know the metrics of the market you choose to trade and you must apply a trading system to dependably capture net points daily from the intraday swings.

Of course there is more to it than the outline above but it is your basic table of action.

Hi, I am just wondering isn't daytrading harder due to more noise and erratic movements? And the trader can tire out more easily due to constant staring at the screen and also from making more trading decisions.

My view is that it may be easier for a newbie to look at weekly charts for a group of related markets for the main signal and use a daily chart to help enter/exit.

 

[Cheese]

Quote from steven21:

Hi, I am just wondering isn't daytrading harder due to more noise and erratic movements? And the trader can tire out more easily due to constant staring at the screen and also from making more trading decisions.

My view is that it may be easier for a newbie to look at weekly charts for a group of related markets for the main signal and use a daily chart to help enter/exit.

I read your point. Yes, it is tiring for a newcomer to watch a screen when every such amateur knows so little.
But to become a winner does require the work and attention. And the confused and untutored mind of course will read much or everything on a chart as noise. Now when you have made yourself fully knowledgeable about the market you decide to daytrade then it is easy and untiring to watch the screen for a trading session.

Undoubtedly there is often the belief at ET that you can place a few trades between which you can leave your mind in a fog (or you you can surf the internet) in between such trades but that is not a prescription for making yourself rich from trading.

 

[d08]

1. In business, you can turn $5k into $100k's. In trading, you need at least $100k.

Same with business, do you really think most turn $5k into $100k's within a few years? If you think that, you're naive. It's only a select few that do it, same with trading.

2. In business, you can be making millions after five years. In trading, you need at least 5 years of learning to average $20k/year, only then do you get to see low-mid 6 figures a year.

How many make millions in business after five years? 1% suppose.

3. In business, you can set aside as much capital as you need to expand. In stock trading, you are limited to $50k / swing trade. Put anymore capital in and the manipulator will freak out and back out from their original plan, leaving you with a failed pattern.

It's called order execution management. How do you think the banks trade?

9. In business, you can go on vacation. In stock trading, you must be present online every single trading day (or check on the behavior of your 'system').

Only point I agree with, but really, if the business is young (less than 3 years), you can't take any vacation. In trading you can move to another country next week, something you can never do with a business.

 

[Lucias]

Unquestionably,

This is something that everyone should do is experiment and see what they are good at. Trading for a living or starting own business without a primary/secondary income stream is extremely difficult. And with starting a business, it can bring some dark days.

I think what you may find that you enjoy more is to get a job and then you will like trading more.

Also, I would say that if you don't feel great at what you do then maybe you need to try a different trading style. But, if you are operating.. this is what I'm trying to suggest too. you are operating on a lower plane then what is required for success. There is a continuum between total frustration and defeat and optimal flow. Most of the people I see who are complaining about trading are operating toward the left of that. The really successful people manage to stay to the right of the continuum.

Without knowing your situation, I feel your best bet would be to take a full time job and continue to trade but do it for fun. That will move you toward the right of the continuum. Or do it for greatness... do it for the glory. But, you need to change 100% your thinking which is difficult to do if you are trying to make a living.

Quote from Unquestionably:

Went into trading thinking that I'd make millions.

Wasted 4.8 years of swing trading only to find out I'm faring no better than taking up a McJob.

Should I have spent those years building up a business instead.


Trading is a waste of time.

Additional proofs:

Cooweb => Made millions in business. He wanted to make 200K/year and couldn't achieve this goal in 5 years.

Neke => Been trading since 1999 (+10 years; all time equuity high => $800K = <80K/year average).

(If you want the big money, go into business).

 

[cooolweb]

Unquestionably,

I forgot to mention one thing that is important,
When I started a business in 1996, I was in the industry since 1995, it wasn't until 1998, almost 3-4 years of experience , did I start making 20-30k per month, by the time it was 99 I had almost 5 years of experience doing 200k per month. It came to a point where I was dominating due to my experience, u can mention one thing and I can detail you on your theory/method/bizplan/style during that time, As experience goes into the top world level, THERE IS NO COMPETITION. It takes time for this to develop.


In any industry you need at least 3-4 years of experience to beat out the regulars, and you need to play it differently then the regular market participants. You mentioned 4.8 years? Thats good. continue that, keep refining your methods. Transform your methods where you can place large bets into one "VISION"...

You only need to get rich once in business. Or invested once in the right stock (AAPL), The 245 failures before it won't matter if only one of your "VISIONS" (not daytrading) go into play.

 

[Ripley]

Quote from Unquestionably:

Went into trading thinking that I'd make millions.

Wasted 4.8 years of swing trading only to find out I'm faring no better than taking up a McJob.

Should I have spent those years building up a business instead.


Trading is a waste of time.

Additional proofs:

Cooweb => Made millions in business. He wanted to make 200K/year and couldn't achieve this goal in 5 years.

Neke => Been trading since 1999 (+10 years; all time equuity high => $800K = <80K/year average).

(If you want the big money, go into business).

99.99% of humanity is chumps... & chumps get slaughtered.

 

[SnakeEYE]

love this thread.it`s like the letter from the battle-front..

 

[i_c_fed_people]

Quote from Eddiefl:

Just chillout,,, erase everything on your charts. Move to daily and trade small. oh first of all do you have a valid, verified by multi years system/methodology ...


EF

By valid and verified, do you mean 'profitable'?
if he had that, he wouldn't be giving up, would he?

Maybe he does have a system/methodology, but it is just losing him money....

 

[Eight]

Quote from Roark:

You're being sarcastic right? Don Bright will help himself to some of the trader's money under the guise of training fees and commissions. It's not going to do jack for the trader. Bright Trading is not a non-profit educational institution. To the contrary, it is a for-profit organization operated for the benefit of the Bright family. In point of fact, Don Bright realized long ago what I pointed out on the second post of this thread: Trading may be a waste of time, but selling to traders is not. SMB Capital Trading arrived at the same conclusion, which is why they're expanding their educational services to include options.

Bullshit, Bright traders have done well over the years.

 

[ScalperJoe]

Quote from Now is Now:

Keep your trading strategy as SIMPLE as possible and maintain a very strict money management strategy...losses will always be there...accept them...move on.

Analyze your daily trading...both profits and losses...

NiN

Also, the lack of discipline and/or lack of capital are keys. Overcome these obstacles and one is bound to be successful over time.