the chart on the left shows the whole day today for the 30 min.
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I am getting my butt handed to me on a daily basis!
- Thread starter jeredlbb
- Start date
I know it must seem as if I have endless questions⦠I appreciate your time in answering them as I inquire. This time I'm wondering about Outside Barsâ¦
In most instances, an OB is an EE (PP4, PP5, PP5a or PP5b). However, I do remember of a time when one of your charts listed it as something other than an EE because based on where it came in the trend, it was a trough/peak rather than a peak/trough. Nonetheless, my question today is about an OB when it occurs immediately after an EE.
Hypothetical situation:
Bar 3 is a PP1. Bar 4 would then be assigned a P1 and either an a, b or c turn occurred. What happens if Bar 4 is an OB (P1,T1 == PP4). Do you mark it as the correct turn, assume a direction change and move on to the next volume measurement?
OR
Do you mark it as a PP4, but presume that the market will continue in the opposite direction of the previous turn (the PP1)?
Thanks again for your time!
In most instances, an OB is an EE (PP4, PP5, PP5a or PP5b). However, I do remember of a time when one of your charts listed it as something other than an EE because based on where it came in the trend, it was a trough/peak rather than a peak/trough. Nonetheless, my question today is about an OB when it occurs immediately after an EE.
Hypothetical situation:
Bar 3 is a PP1. Bar 4 would then be assigned a P1 and either an a, b or c turn occurred. What happens if Bar 4 is an OB (P1,T1 == PP4). Do you mark it as the correct turn, assume a direction change and move on to the next volume measurement?
OR
Do you mark it as a PP4, but presume that the market will continue in the opposite direction of the previous turn (the PP1)?
Thanks again for your time!
Quote from jack hershey:
I will post a series of attachments for reviewing the "synchronicity" aspects of trading.
Thank you for the series of attachments. They were interesting to work through, although I must have missed something critical the first few times through because I still cannot see how pt3 to pt3 trading comes close to making as much as the long diagonal. Of course, as you say, pt3 to pt3 isnât necessary if one knows how trends begin and end.
Quote from jack hershey:
The future agenda here is:
[snip]
10. WALLS in DOM for calling all turns or holding through close together BookMarks (D-ND to ND-D turns).
[snip]
12. Wedging in the Apprendices (how the self correcting concept works, news (planned and not planned), frontrunning smart money, DOM games and cascading, MAT trading for problem solvers, vetting new trader team members, vetting new problem solvers.)
If we have reached an appropriate time, would you consider addressing the DOM walls in 10. and the DOM games and cascading in 12.? All the other appendices items sound valuable as well.
-river
Quote from xioxxio:
Hi Jack,
Please could you post a recent chart.
Thank you
Here is a recent one.
you will notice two additions:
1. we annotate the trend type as A, B, C or D right there with the turns a, b, or c. the direction is as before: black arrow is reversal long and red arrow is reversal short.
2. You see red and black squares for move reversals. These are for trading "moves" of trends and are seen on a 30 min chart. NB: it is impotant to annotate the 30 min chart channels correctly. If you do NOT know where pt 1 is nothing can be done to do channels correctly. Obviously, a prson needs a key to know he knows which 5 minute turns are the correct turns for doing reversals on a thirty minute chart. we have such a key and it, as expected is color codded in the same set manner as is the Modrian Table. We created a way for those who do not have faciltiy to trade the 5 minute chart. What this means is that there is an expectation that a person knows he knows BEFORE the reversal moment and he watches the moment come into the present.
Part of having facility is always knowing that you know. Do ing this for the 30 min chart affords any person the time to have total facility using his locked in "anticipation". One of the great moments as a trader is getting knowledgeable and skillful enough to operate in the near future and watch the near future finally come into the present. This is the "state of being in anticiption with total certainty". This status allows you to take the full offer of the market.
Enjoy. For your pleasure calculate the trades today to get the points won. to be conservative penalize yourself 3 ticks per reversal as to price of actions.
NB: Tomorrow is FOMC day and the open is short at the top of an early bar with a turn short. the anouncement is usually 7 minutes early and before it, thee is always a "fake out" trade in the wrong direction.
Attachments
Its been 6 months since you started the thread...how is your progress? Just wondering if what you are learning from Mr H et al
has helped?
has helped?
Quote from jeredlbb: 7-09-2013
Hey everyone. I was MIA last week due to a previous obligation. I am back going again though.
Mr. Hershey, how is your recovery going?
FF, OS, how are things going?
I am progressing. I just need some time. Missing all of last week sure did not help. Also, with Mr. Hershey being gone, things have slowed down. I have some questions. But, I think everything I need is in this thread. I just need to extract and distill it. Some continued help from Mr Hershey would be appreciated though. In fact his continued help is probably imperative.
Jered
I am glad to see that this thread has been gaining more participation again. I became aware of it recently, but thought that I had missed the train this time. I was hoping for a while that another one would leave the station soon, and then began to consider trying to start another journey myself.
When I saw that this thread was beginning to have posts again, I though to myself, even better. I would like to participate in the learning process here, but I do not have the organization of concepts yet, or all of the parts to be active in the current level of discussion. I will attempt to get up to speed.
I am currently reading and compiling all of the information in this thread. I will make a glossary of all the posts, and find out what I know and understand so far. When I am complete with this, I plan to bring up the first gap I find in my understanding along with the previous material related to it, and hope to receive assistance from some of the generous participants here.
Thank you for all of the contributions so far from everyone.
When I saw that this thread was beginning to have posts again, I though to myself, even better. I would like to participate in the learning process here, but I do not have the organization of concepts yet, or all of the parts to be active in the current level of discussion. I will attempt to get up to speed.
I am currently reading and compiling all of the information in this thread. I will make a glossary of all the posts, and find out what I know and understand so far. When I am complete with this, I plan to bring up the first gap I find in my understanding along with the previous material related to it, and hope to receive assistance from some of the generous participants here.
Thank you for all of the contributions so far from everyone.
Attachments
I created a post to this thread last night, but I am puzzled that it does not appear on the thread anymore. I have completed the first read and I am 30% complete with the thread archive.
I will compare the last posted chart and log with an attempt to log cases and volume test procedure by myself in order to learn.
In my last post I had attached a hand drawing of Type C Trend that became cluttered with things I do not fully know yet. I will re-post it later for reference, but for now I have created a more simple version to demonstrate my first impression of Band A, Band B, and Leg 1 volume test procedure.
Feedback is welcome, and I will most likely be able to answer many of my own questions during second read, third read, etc. since this thread is shockingly detailed beyond my initial expectation.
If anyone needs materials of the thread from beginning to page 70, let me know since they are archived with glossary at the moment.
I will compare the last posted chart and log with an attempt to log cases and volume test procedure by myself in order to learn.
In my last post I had attached a hand drawing of Type C Trend that became cluttered with things I do not fully know yet. I will re-post it later for reference, but for now I have created a more simple version to demonstrate my first impression of Band A, Band B, and Leg 1 volume test procedure.
Feedback is welcome, and I will most likely be able to answer many of my own questions during second read, third read, etc. since this thread is shockingly detailed beyond my initial expectation.
If anyone needs materials of the thread from beginning to page 70, let me know since they are archived with glossary at the moment.
Attachments
Hello and welcome to the thread⦠Since you've indicated that feedback is welcome, I figured I might post some info in a more concise way that contradicts somewhat the information you posted in your attachment.
Assigning P1
P1 is assigned to a bar in one of two ways.
1. It is on the turn bar if failsafe (BM,REV or BO,T1) or "A" Band turns occur (other than EE, Ag - See A band sheet).
2. In all other cases the P1 is assigned at the first measurable opportunity. This begins a trend. All bars following the P1 are assigned by the volume test procedure.
After T1 a possible P1 is killed. This assures forward movement
After a P2 there are NO MORE T1's.
A variation of above
P1 begins all trends within all 4 types. P1 is assigned so it can be a value that is "independent of the past". A window opens when P1 appears. Nothing can be seen before P1 in a beginning trend.
⢠For P1 to repeat, the forming bar must be larger.
⢠Do a repeat of all bar names. Peaks mean larger; troughs mean smaller. In volume, the names are names for peaks or for troughs.
⢠Testing has two answers: True or False. Each is unique and never overlaps the other. As answers, they are mutually exclusive.
⢠The purpose and process of testing is to get all FALSE responses because that states that you have finished a trend no matter what type.
In addition...
I attached a document that's been posted multiple times (Volume Band Illustrations) that helped me to better understand the bands as JH has defined them. As you begin to measure volume and use horizontal lines in your volume pane for P1, T1 and P2, you'll "see" the bands more clearly.
This information has all been culled from multiple posts by JH. By posting different ways of mostly the same information, likely something will click for you.Quote from llIHeroic:
Feedback is welcome.
Assigning P1
P1 is assigned to a bar in one of two ways.
1. It is on the turn bar if failsafe (BM,REV or BO,T1) or "A" Band turns occur (other than EE, Ag - See A band sheet).
2. In all other cases the P1 is assigned at the first measurable opportunity. This begins a trend. All bars following the P1 are assigned by the volume test procedure.
After T1 a possible P1 is killed. This assures forward movement
After a P2 there are NO MORE T1's.
A variation of above
P1 begins all trends within all 4 types. P1 is assigned so it can be a value that is "independent of the past". A window opens when P1 appears. Nothing can be seen before P1 in a beginning trend.
⢠For P1 to repeat, the forming bar must be larger.
⢠Do a repeat of all bar names. Peaks mean larger; troughs mean smaller. In volume, the names are names for peaks or for troughs.
⢠Testing has two answers: True or False. Each is unique and never overlaps the other. As answers, they are mutually exclusive.
⢠The purpose and process of testing is to get all FALSE responses because that states that you have finished a trend no matter what type.
In addition...
I attached a document that's been posted multiple times (Volume Band Illustrations) that helped me to better understand the bands as JH has defined them. As you begin to measure volume and use horizontal lines in your volume pane for P1, T1 and P2, you'll "see" the bands more clearly.