I am getting my butt handed to me on a daily basis!

Quote from scriabinop23:

You've already blown up. Many of us have been there.

Let's say you have 18% remaining... Odds are 100% right now you'll feel more regret by quitting when you are down rather than giving the 18% away.

So basically, get prepared to have lost it all.

First thing you need to do is stop. Likely you aren't in enough control of yourself to do that. Maybe some creative mental accounting can get you back. First, accepting the loss and furthermore accepting that you'll likely NEVER make any money in the markets is the first step to healing.

So... Move most of the money out of brokerage (at least temporarily) and leave a little to feed your gambling problem. Turn it into a junior account -- instead of trading 1 lot of ES, go down to 1 ATM SPY or SPY mini option (if you MUST trade S&P, which I have no idea why). You'll either continue to bleed, or you'll churn, or maybe you'll do OK and get some confidence back. Tell yourself once in a while your dream/hope you'll eventually return the remaining 16% (or whatever the # is) and someday get it all back from this 'edge' you and everyone claims to be seeking. And by the way, if you are trading options... for the sake of learning some self control, no doubling down. Practice taking losses on your failed entries. And trade serially, don't treat approximate 'doubling down' as two 'parallel' trades. Not right now -you aren't emotionally capable of doing it. You need to practice discipline.


Just remember - You don't have an 'edge' (as most don't, so don't feel to bad about it) so stop acting as if you do.

My guess is that you actually don't like trading as much as you think you do. What you like is -not doing- whatever else you were doing. Well let me clarify, maybe you like gambling. But that's a degenerate activity (add it to the top of the list of other vices) ... (and all of us who are here find it appealing on some level)

Some other good advice here.. but you need to get a handle. And stop feeding money to other people.

BTW: Sure S&P is 'manipulated' (but so is everything else)... but this has been the easiest environment to trade it in as a perpetual dip buyer. Nothing complicated; very simple stuff. And everyone who said the market doesn't reward hours spent or 'work ethic': totally agree. That said, it helps to have a strong enough finance/stats background to keep yourself out of trouble and save yourself from wasting time chasing anomalies and technical systems that you might believe are viable (but really aren't). But that's another discussion.

Likely it'll take you years to develop any skills. Its lousy to have to accept the blunt reality you are a failure at this iteration, but the sooner you are, the more money and grief you'll save yourself.

I have already stopped trading, albeit temporarily. I think I am back in control. That is why I originally posted here. 1. To help continue to 'put the brakes on' and 2. To discuss with others what a mess I have made and how best to recover from it.

When you say I need to accept the I'll likely NEVER make any money in the markets is the first step to healing." Are you saying I should admit this so I can get on with 'healing' so I can ultimately be successful? Or are you saying I just should accept it and move one to another venture?

I don't feel I have to trade the S&P. What would you suggest if not the S&P?

Would you explain more about your comments about there being, or not being, an edge?

Thanks for your help thus far.
 
Quote from CoolTraderDude:

I think the real problem that you have is that you can't tell sane apart from insane...



Are you for real or are you Hershey posting as someone else...?


I guess you will have to explain both comments you made to me.

1. I don't understand what you are calling sane or insane.

2. I am not sure why you would think I was Hershey. I know nothing about him. I have only read a few of his posts. From what little I have seen I wonder why you think of him the way you do.

I would entertain your views.
 
Quote from jeredlbb:

Mr Hershey,

I understand your post except I am still not fully understanding the sense of how you are suggesting that I "have lost much of (my) potential mental capacity"

Over 55 years I have seen a large sample of potential traders, traders and failed traders who cannot any longer learn to trade.

People who get interested in trading, compile rotten baggage very rapidly. they make bad decisions to fill their minds with shortcuts to making money. They cannot cever fraom the consequences of their behanior and mistaken learning.

As you demonstrated to yourself reading my post, you learned you cannot erase your mind's permanent longterm memory and any thing related to a simple task keeps further attaching itself to the seed first planted. So you are well along the way down into this bottomless pit.

When a person is learning failure as you are he does not like to get the news of his status.

You need to stop learning failure now.


Is it the thought that I am creating a subconscious imprint of failures in my mind which are near impossible to erase?

trading failures are nothing to consider. your failure is very different than a trading episode that loses money. Losing money is just a small tiny thing of no significance. Building your mind with irrational myths is very damaging, however. They stay in your mind and become the recourse you cannot go to to succeed. You are creating a mess in your mind. Stop this mess creating


Which in turn does not allow for appropriately directed mental capacity?

Yes if your are doing the wrong thing, then you are also failing to do the correct thing.

As for "A person can start from scratch and learn to be an expert in 20 days."

-HOW?

See below

20 days allow you to sleep 19 times.

During sleep your vast unconscious perception is cemented into your conscious perception.

So the 20 days are spent in purposeful work.

You and mostly everyone else will not do the work and you will not work directly from point a to point b to become expert and fully differentiated.

The drills you do are set up so you can create all the items you need and second you learn how to use them.

The order below is arranged from simple to complex. A fifth grader can do all the work.

1. discover and commit to memory the 10 cases of price (adjacent bar names*) This is one page of 10 examples.

2. discover and commit to memory the 11 cases of volume.(adjacent bar names*) This can be divided into two tasks. 5 names you will use frequently and 6 names you will almost never use because "failsafe" steps in.

3. You will learn to use a display to annotate volume and note price portions.

4. there are four look up sheets of paper. You construct these by doing bar-by bar 3. and logging on a log. The log has a test procedure and you long the test results. you need to learn three steps of the test procedure.

5. You will earn the system of the operation of the market. It involves 5 OOE's. The OOE's are simple and can be learned in an hour or so.

* names are defined by simple boolean algebra functions.

Almost no one can do the mental shift to look at the market as a finite system that has no flaws, no noise and no anomalies. It, as seen above, is too diificult. It olt takes 20 to 40 minutes to do the 61 bars of a day's trading. Usually atleast 30 points of profit per contract are the result in ES. This 1500 dollars is MORE than a contract's margin. My margin is 20 points for example.

For item 1 two cases make money and 8 cases are not making money. Most of trading is in between making money when volume cannot be measured. These are rest periods of work.

When you draw the pics of the 10 cases they are stamped in your memory permanently very quickly.

Right now about 100% of people reading this cannot even draw the 10 cases as a fifth grader can do it very rapidly. Why? because people here have very cluttered minds and their minds will no longer work.

If I attach the illustration right now I deny you the opportunity to reason through the answer.

I have many many inventions that cause the mind to get organized very rapidly and very thoroughly. All of these things prevent a person from using the garbage already in his mind but only up to a certain point.

That point is reached when a person says what I do is not a good idea. His mind to too fucked up to understand what I said above.

You are borderline since you had to think about an unequivacable idea already presented to you.

At least you found out it is possible to do specific specified work for 20 days to become an expert.

for item 1:

a. draw two translating bars for a long move.

b. draw two translating bars for a short move.

c. draw two parallel bars (same color) side by side of equal legth. name this pair a hitch

d. Use c to draw an upward extention on the second bar, call this a stitch black.

e. repeat d. by putting the extension downward. Call this a stitch red.

f. use c. to shorten the top of the second bar. call this a flat Bottom Pennant (FBP).

g. use c to shorten the bottom of the second bar . Call this a flat Top Pennant (FTP)

h. use C and shorten both top and bottom of the second bar. Call this a SYM.

j add a third bar to items c. f, g, or h and do not allow the third bar to exceed the first bar of c, f, g, or h. Call this a lateral.

k. Make the bars on c opposite colors either way. Call this a hitch.

now write the boolean expressions for these bars. after that apply the expressions to your display and fill in a color codding for the interior and border of the container.

What is the lesson ? the lesson is to use the most prominant opperators in your mind for sensing: O1 is space operator. O2 is shape operator. O3 is change of shape operator.

Now you can see price bars as pairs are formed. A five minute bar goes through shape chages until it "locks in to a final shape. when it does you begin to log on the left side of your log.

Only two shapes give you permission to measure the volume, the independent variable in the system of operation of the markets.

Wake up an recognize that 100% of others are using the improper data to create risk and money manangement problems that they will never solve.

you asked as question. It was breif (one word).

Here is where everyone finds out if they are going to emulate you.

drawing pics a thrugh k is tough. It could take a whole page of paper. then you have to write the expressions. then you have to add the expressions to your price pane. then you get to SEE the market for the first time.
 

Attachments

On the 17JUN13 shown in the EOD chart, you saw the annotations for the day.

A long entry took place on bar 1 the price was 31.50.

Each c turn is a reversal after that. EE's inbetween the c turns were sub fractal holds.

Bar 81 was where a person could go flat for the day at 34.25.

Connecting the c reversals one after another added up to a total excursion of 36.75 points per contract.

the work flow of the trader is to look at the price shape and its container, if any to get permission to measure the volume order of events. The answr is logged and anotated on volume.

Turns occur. they have volume EE names and price a, b, or C names. You look them up on four sheets of paper.

Making 30 points doubles your capital for use tomorrow (See instructions to Pekelo on how money works for settlement and for fees).

This means that you can cover your loses in three or four days after some of the 20 days of learning to be an expert.
 
Quote from jeredlbb:

Yes, I see signs of addiction in me at times. Other times I don't. Lately, as my losses mount I see it more.

I guess I think we all have these signs in us in varying degrees. I don't smoke, I have never done drugs, I have never been an alcoholic, when I go to Vegas I gamble with a hundred bucks and when it is gone I stop.

But, I am in no way saying that I am not an addict. Like I said. I see the signs too.

I guess I see this. I can learn to control it by implementing a system. Is that not why a rock hard system is a tenant of trading? ie To safeguard us all from such train wrecks as this thread is discussing?

I sat out of the markets yesterday and will today and the foreseeable future.

Making money is much more appealing to me than gambling. Yes, I have a long way to go.

Thanks NoDoji, you continue to help. I am open for more insight.

You can be a compulsive gambler without exhibiting compulsive gambling with every opportunity to gamble.

Just as there are alcoholics who only drink at home in the closet or the basement, or only drink on weekends, or only drink beer, there are gamblers who only gamble in a single environment. I know a compulsive gambler who could spend a month around casinos and never even play a game of any sort.

You definitely need to develop and implement a system in demo mode before trading live.

I'd wish you good luck, but profitable trading isn't about luck.
 
The 17th had an entry, 8 reversals and an exit.

There were 28 EE events, however.

these were spread over the four types of trends. Different types of trends occurred during the day. One table allows you to look up what is what. I posted all 8 panels of that table for everyone's convenience.

When you are in a trand and an event locks in; then you look to see if you reverse. you do know 5 10 or more minutes ahead what could be the answer so there is no rush to see what is happening.

Actually as you work along you know everything ahead of the Present since the market system of operation tells you everything corectly ahead of time. there emotional element is like knowing how to drive a car down the road. you know ahead of time what is what and you behave accordingly.

Everything has names. Tables have all the answers. All the named things have mathematical expressions so everything is part of an ATS.

In 20 days of learning, your mind takes over and all the learning is done to answer questions your mind asks. You write the answer in the correct space provided.
 
Quote from CoolTraderDude:

I think the real problem that you have is that you can't tell sane apart from insane...



Are you for real or are you Hershey posting as someone else...?

Obviously he is one of my paid aliases.

I and all my aliases get paid by management.

you give us hits and cause us to reply.

keep up the good work. you are really cool to be able to detect my alias so quickly. what mental prowess!!!!! have you ever done any trading????
 
OP,don`t play with JH,you won`t be able to compile a decent system of his occasional gems,here and there.He will play with you for a while and then dumps like a broken toy.That what he does here,on ET.So drop JH and better watch out for the swans.
 
Quote from bau250:

Jack, dude, you're a trip.

I feel like I'm stoned every time I read one of your posts.

WOW!!!

Its such a pleasure to find out this is so cost effective for you.

I got added to the Improv cast in Philly.....

My freebee tickets really paid off in those olden days.
 
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