I am done with Futures... going back to Forex

I think perhaps we're missing a keyword here...

Yes, 1 lot orders can "move a market". In a very liquid instrument, a giant storm of grains of sand can erode a mountain.

It is the mountain that causes the market to either attack or retreat, which is the real "moving".

It is just that OUR individual one lots cannot move the market on their OWN. I think that may be where this is all falling down? That you are saying that any ONE individual person's order IS THE ONE MOVING THE MARKET? That must be the confusion.
 
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schweiz said:
The underlying move should theoretically make the futures move. It should result in a change of supply and demand. So the underlying should be incorporated in the price of the futures. The price of the futures is the level at which people can buy or sell. If the underlying move would differ from the futures move, or if there would be lag, it would not matter as the only thing that matters is the price of the future. Because that's what will make your profit or your loss. The difference between the price you at which you bought the future and the price you receive for the sale will make up the profit or loss. No matter what the underlying does.
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It is easierto move futures contracts than stock for lots of reasons..primarily one exchange and teh leverage forces stocks to move in unison primaril the spy.. for every action there is a reaction around the world soemwhere.. I am not an expert but I know wht I know from seeing my 1 lots move teh mkt so it doesn't matter to me what you think. you will earn when you finally put in a real order.
 
Overnight said:
I think perhaps we're missing a keyword here...

Yes, 1 lot orders can "move a market". In a very liquid instrument, a giant storm of grains of sand can erode a mountain.

It is the mountain that causes the market to either attack or retreat, which is the real "moving".

It is just that OUR individual one lots cannot move the market on their OWN. I think that may be where this is all falling down? That you are saying that any ONE individual person's order IS THE ONE MOVING THE MARKET? That must be the confusion.
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good point OVERNITE. if you want to mvoe teh mkt several points in 1 quick 1 second move all by yourself without triggering stops then yes it will take more than a 1 lot. no one is saying a 1 lot moves the es 2 or 3 full points.. but it can happen dependingon if that 1 lot trade mkt ordere is used to trigger 500 lots of stops.. one after the other.
 
schweiz said:
When I speak about moving the market I speak about moves of several points, not just 1 tick up or down. You speak about noise, not about a move.
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so what are you trying to find out or accomplish.. you want to make a move? when you try go for itbut you can meet opposition very quickly if not atthe right time.
 
REDP1800 said:
if you actually watch the DOM you will see that a 1 lot mkt order will jump the spread and move and the market.. all you are doing is trading at the offer when mkt is sitting at the bid if there are 100 to sell or 3 you still move the market up to that price. so how is that not moving the market?
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I want to buy 1 contract. I place a market order, the transaction takes place at the Best Ask. I don't think I just moved the market up from the bid. I had to pay the Best Ask price if I wanted an instant transaction.

I think most people would consider moving the market away from the current bid/ask would be moving the market. I could be wrong.

Your Cancel Order Theory is substantially more sound than the 1 Lot Theory - When one robot has a certain percentage of the DOM and they cancel their orders creating a vacuum it triggers FOMO in both retail and other robots. But again, this is not being enacted by a 1 lot trader. Their orders may be peppered across many levels as 1 lots , but they are NOT 1 lot traders.

The reason the larger robot cancels their orders is not as simple as a spoofing conspiracy, there are many possible reasons, which is a different subject. The OP's thread has already been hijacked by our postings.
 
REDP1800 said:
the[y] are the most prevalent trade qty so that would mean they most likely cause most of the price movement
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That isn't necessarily true.

Education has been replaced with training, most people do not know how to reason from first principles.
 
They said:
I want to buy 1 contract. I place a market order, the transaction takes place at the Best Ask. I don't think I just moved the market up from the bid. I had to pay the Best Ask price if I wanted an instant transaction.

I think most people would consider moving the market away from the current bid/ask would be moving the market. I could be wrong.

Your Cancel Order Theory is substantially more sound than the 1 Lot Theory - When one robot has a certain percentage of the DOM and they cancel their orders creating a vacuum it triggers FOMO in both retail and other robots. But again, this is not being enacted by a 1 lot trader. Their orders may be peppered across many levels as 1 lots , but they are NOT 1 lot traders.

The reason the larger robot cancels their orders is not as simple as a spoofing conspiracy, there are many possible reasons, which is a different subject. The OP's thread has already been hijacked by our postings.
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what does the ops thread hs been hijacked mean? and about this 1 lot business. if you change the price of last trade of the mkt either up or down then you have moved the mkt..period. It has taken a lot work but i am getting to the bottom of a lot of stuff that will be revealed when I feel comfortable that I have the correct answers. what you origianlly were trying find out is how much does a 10 lot or 50 lot or 100 lot move the mkt and I showed you thtt sometimes it doesn't move it at all and others it will move it 20 points.. like last in the nasdaaq mini.
 
Oh no the trailer park 1 lot traders are driving the market down. Yesterday in post #108 I mentioned near the close a triangle was forming and the BO could be in either direction but that the context pressure favored a BO south. Because the bearish institutions won the fight after the rate increase.

However, all the 1 lot trailer park traders must have read my post because they went to work, 1 lot after the other, and have managed to drive price down. Never underestimate the 1 lot traders facing off the institutions! The bullish institutions succumed to their enormous pressure. As i type they continue driving the ES south with their 1 lot trades! Oh my, goodness gracious, I did not know that there was in existence that many trailer parks. Perhaps the motorhome traders joined them?
 
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