Hint: consider someone who is already in a trade at that strike, and what their risks are. And don't forget: the owner of an American-style option can exercise it regardless of whether it's ITM or OTM... and settlement goes on for quite a while after the cash close, when all extrinsic value is gone.
How to short the S&P using options? Day & swing puts
- Thread starter KCalhoun
- Start date
Hint: consider someone who is already in a trade at that strike, and what their risks are. And don't forget: the owner of an American-style option can exercise it regardless of whether it's ITM or OTM... and settlement goes on for quite a while after the cash close, when all extrinsic value is gone.
Right on instrument settlement, way around on names.
European style are cash settled, American style settle with underlying.
Spx options are European style, and spy are American style.
Jesus, this thread is going in circles with drunk, random, half-ass, replies.
I'll Sum it up again.
S&P, SPX or SPY, whatever same thing. Trade that.
ATM, at the money options.
You don't want to over pay by buying ITM in the money options. You definitely don't want to buy cheap lottery tickets, Out of the Money options.
Weekly options, closer to expiration. These are the most volatile/crazy/highest range/potentially most profitable.
Everyday, capture the one trade/move you see on the S&P chart. That biggest, obvious, move trade.
This is the part I refuse to talk about/give away. This magical process. Knowing when to Buy and Sell...these striking and killing points.
Now, go make a Million....
This process is part art, part science. Requires patience, understanding, process, philosophy and wisdom and tactics, assumptions, expectations.
Most of you guys are basic, dim-witted, coked up, short-sighted, narrow-minded, salesmen....that's why you'll never succeed.
I'll Sum it up again.
S&P, SPX or SPY, whatever same thing. Trade that.
ATM, at the money options.
You don't want to over pay by buying ITM in the money options. You definitely don't want to buy cheap lottery tickets, Out of the Money options.
Weekly options, closer to expiration. These are the most volatile/crazy/highest range/potentially most profitable.
Everyday, capture the one trade/move you see on the S&P chart. That biggest, obvious, move trade.
This is the part I refuse to talk about/give away. This magical process. Knowing when to Buy and Sell...these striking and killing points.
Now, go make a Million....
This process is part art, part science. Requires patience, understanding, process, philosophy and wisdom and tactics, assumptions, expectations.
Most of you guys are basic, dim-witted, coked up, short-sighted, narrow-minded, salesmen....that's why you'll never succeed.
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Overall it's a great thread with lots of entertaining and useful information.
Many thanks to all for posting your thoughts, it paints a picture that despite all the different opinions makes things much more clearer and before I started the thread.
One takeaway is that options build say a lot more flexibility into trading strategy and design than simply old school day trading price action. So that has both pros and cons. But overall you're able to exert much more finesse and control over your trades so that's a plus.
Many thanks to all for posting your thoughts, it paints a picture that despite all the different opinions makes things much more clearer and before I started the thread.
One takeaway is that options build say a lot more flexibility into trading strategy and design than simply old school day trading price action. So that has both pros and cons. But overall you're able to exert much more finesse and control over your trades so that's a plus.
Thanks for the correction.
Hmmm... gotta think about that.
Okay… I read a little more on options…. Just enough to get me into more trouble!
If we’re coming up to the close, and I’m holding a 0-DTE option that is ATM or OTM, the intrinsic value (any positive difference between the strike price and spot price of underlying) of that option would be zero. Extrinsic value is the difference between the current price of the option (premium) minus the intrinsic value. Since intrinsic value is zero, extrinsic value is all that remains.
I think you need options software to calculate extrinsic value accurately, but it appears time and volatility are the major factors to consider. Since time value is also zero, that leaves only volatility.
Considering your two hints: 1) It sounds like I should exercise that option prior to -- or at -- the close, and 2) It sounds like I would want to take advantage of the closing volatility
So how would that work? Still thinking…
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Overpay by buying ITM???
You must know this makes very little sense and deserves some form of explanation.
You cant be saying ONE ATM option is preferable to an ITM
You must know this makes very little sense and deserves some form of explanation.
You cant be saying ONE ATM option is preferable to an ITM
Well, the general idea...is to Anticipate a move. Not already be in the move, or in the money.
An option consists of two parts: intrinsic value, if it's in the money or not...and extrinsic value, all those greeks, volatility, misc, etc, calculated, factored, priced in.
Naturally, an option that's In the money will have a much more pricier, bloated, overall costs...than an option contract that's not, yet, valuable.
Would you rather own a fire home insurance policy that's not yet on fire? Or purchase a policy that's already on fire?
To purchase a fire home insurance policy that's already on fire...will costs you much more, compared to a home that's not on fire.
Like I previously mentioned, it's all about Timing,....the better timing someone has, the much more profitable they can be.
Everybody in the market are all essentially dumb fuck gamblers. But the person with timing...is rewarded.
Are you new or something? This is common sense, or options 101.
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You have not responded to this question...
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/thre...ns-day-swing-puts.361465/page-11#post-5456598
Are you inferring that since I am already in a losing move, there is no way an option at this point in time, can protect me from more loss, or give me profits outside of that move?
"Abandon all hope, ye who entered there"?
Absent skew... which option (flat vol-surface) will have more "bloat" ...... the 70D put or the 30D put?