How to read this VOLUME chart ?

Just for fun I put volume on my chart and started watching it a bit over the last week in CL and NQ. The only thing I notice is that there will be a large volume spike on a 1 minute candle and this will usually be followed by a short term pull back and then price will continue in the initial direction. This spikes happen at s/r levels which can be found by looking left. The thing is this is only good for scalping because this information is not enough to know if this will be a trend reversal or just the start of a pull back. At this point profit taking becomes an issue and you either have crap R/R or you loose.

I think its better to use an indicator to gauge market momentum (which measures interest or volume indirectly) and trade based on that along with price action. I removed the volume off my charts.

1 min would be too short bar duration in order to teach yourself. You could try on 5 and 30 min. Bar-bar analysis means you start with 1 bar but then extend analysis from that, to 2 bars, then 3, then 4, then 5, etc. This way you build an aggregate from the fastest data-components first, thus not having to wait 21 or 65 bars for signals. Straight lines will be preferable due to accuracy, ie. like zig zag above as a suggested exercise. If someone posts charts we can together build on from own standpoint and see what can be infered further. Concluding before 20 days of inference and focused work would be premature.
 
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Just for fun I put volume on my chart and started watching it a bit over the last week in CL and NQ. The only thing I notice is that there will be a large volume spike on a 1 minute candle and this will usually be followed by a short term pull back and then price will continue in the initial direction. This spikes happen at s/r levels which can be found by looking left. The thing is this is only good for scalping because this information is not enough to know if this will be a trend reversal or just the start of a pull back. At this point profit taking becomes an issue and you either have crap R/R or you loose.

I think its better to use an indicator to gauge market momentum (which measures interest or volume indirectly) and trade based on that along with price action. I removed the volume off my charts.

CL and NQ are my trading horses so... try this

1. remember both futures are very fast, especially CL which is full of hedgers who operate with huge volume per transaction. So try 30 sec timeframe and compare with 1 min. For NQ also try 'long term' 2 min.

2. for time based chart put the range of the bar histogram versus volume histogram. Do you see a lot of differences? May be you see how volume is leading? If so, do not forget to share your observations...

3. try to couple time based chart with range bar chart. Use 8 to 12 ticks for NQ, 3 to 5 ticks for CL
 
1 min would be too short bar duration in order to teach yourself. You could try on 5 and 30 min.

Simples, you trade ES if I understand correctly, and may be (I do not know) for ES it is good timeframe. ES is 100% speculative.
CL is totally different. The volume distribution across time scale is extremely far from uniform. The spikes are sudden and huge, because of hedgers activity. For any 5 min high volume bar 80% of volume are in 15-30 second interval. So
1. 5 min timeframe seems to be 'long term' for intraday short term traders.
2. pro rate volume is totally misleading for CL

BTW, reason for the minute about the activity on CL. Hedgers and big speculators step in when and if they get proper PRICE to activate the trade. Firstly, the proper price level is seen, and than the activity manifests. PRICE first, VOLUME second, RSI&MACD&others are third. Price leads, volume follows. Is the ES differnt? May be...
 
See the attachment, CL and ES
Volume vs bar range
See any difference? Really?
 

Attachments

  • CL 09-18 (5 Minute) 2018_08_10.png
    CL 09-18 (5 Minute) 2018_08_10.png
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  • ES 09-18 (5 Minute) 2018_08_13.png
    ES 09-18 (5 Minute) 2018_08_13.png
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Simples, you trade ES if I understand correctly, and may be (I do not know) for ES it is good timeframe. ES is 100% speculative.
CL is totally different. The volume distribution across time scale is extremely far from uniform. The spikes are sudden and huge, because of hedgers activity. For any 5 min high volume bar 80% of volume are in 15-30 second interval. So
1. 5 min timeframe seems to be 'long term' for intraday short term traders.
2. pro rate volume is totally misleading for CL

BTW, reason for the minute about the activity on CL. Hedgers and big speculators step in when and if they get proper PRICE to activate the trade. Firstly, the proper price level is seen, and than the activity manifests. PRICE first, VOLUME second, RSI&MACD&others are third. Price leads, volume follows. Is the ES differnt? May be...

Thank you for sharing your experience and inspiring investigation.

The JHM method is traditionally for ES 5 min and 30 min, so such chart would probably be best for training. Though other markets and timeframes should follow the same principles - with some natural variations of course. I've trained on QQQ EOD-bars for instance, and not yet fully incorporated ideas from JHM. For intraday/CL/NQ you know your specifics better than me. Factual charts is helpful for differentiation. For differentiating JHM one needs to adjust/shelve some of what one already knows in order to "fill the cup" with additional, different knowledge. It doesn't destroy what you already know, just provide more practical efforts on the differentiation aspects of trading.

There are some misunderstandings floating around. According to my aquired/current understanding of JHM: In JHM price is definately most important. Price will make or break your account from actual trades. As making money is most important in JHM, price-fluctuations naturally are of utmost importance. SCT is all about staying on the right side of the market, but also sidelining when required to preserve capitals.

Though, if one only analyse price, such can not always lead, and only do so by necessity/proxy. So this is why volume is always part of JHM, as the independent variable, in order to gauge price, the dependent variable, and pace. A start is: With zero volume, there's no more price! Charts with volume can assist clearing up the ever-present confusion in price and provide insights into dominance and non-dominance.

Update to latest post with attachments:
Looking at your newly posted charts, one of them has very much fewer bars. Both TFs / instruments look as expected, with squiggly lines and appropriate volume colors. Now could a manual "Zig Zag" infer insights when looking at the whole chart? Noting that the last Z*g would not be "final" yet, and no need for perfection, just hindsight estimations. For now: The manual differentiation-process itself more valuable than any results and conclusions. So no need for indicators or programming. ATR could be removed for now, just to provide even more focus on price and volume with minimum distraction.
 
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See the attachment, CL and ES
Volume vs bar range
See any difference? Really?
funnily enough i see no difference
See the attachment, CL and ES
Volume vs bar range
See any difference? Really?
see my chart the bar which is marked with yellow arrow and the volume for that bar is indicated with yellow arrow happens to be the lowest volume in the last 10 bars:this is called a test and is a strong buy signal.
Why? for that you have to read Tom Williams book 'master the markets'
it is not that volume will give you signals on every bar sometimes it confirms the price action as valid.
it is difficult but possible to explain here but is the effort worth it when it is told in the book?
test.png
 
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volume has it's place in the analysis but very often the volume signal is over ruled by momentum especially when the trend is strong and like everything else in technical analysis has to be put in context.
do not forget volume like momentum or trendlines is relative and low volume may get even lower ......so what is low and high is very subjective.

often volume will signal weakness which will turn out to be temporary.....so taking ANY SELL SIGNAL including that of volume in a strong trend should not be done if the context is not right
declining volume is as sign of weakness but as any trader knows the market can get weaker and weaker and still continue trending.

but used correctly it does provide an edge
 
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I think the misunderstand comes when one puts the cart before the horse...

volume does lead price but how much move are you going to get, is up to other factors such as the longer term trend, nearest support resistance....just because volume is high does not necessarily mean a 100 tick move will come
 
So when somebody is speaking (seriously) about 'volume leads price' it is interesting to know what does it mean exactly,

It exactly means, "they don't know what they're talking about".

At best, volume is coincidental with price. At worst, misleading.

Do yourself a favor and forget volume entirely.
 
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