How Progressives Drive Income Inequality

The point of the article is pretty clear, leftists have no idea how to drop income inequality by raising people at the bottom's income basically all they know how to do is punish people at the top.
I disagree. If you want to raise people at the bottom working full time you have to leave a little capital with them. I don't know any "leftists" personally, but I think Bernie Sander's plan, who would certainly be politically to the left of the anarcho-capitalists we find in the far right of the Republican party today,is to leave a little bit of disposable income with those near the bottom. I think this is a good plan and should give our economy a much needed shot in the arm.
 
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I disagree. If you want to raise people at the bottom working full time you have to leave a little capital with them. I don't know any "leftists" personally, but I think Bernie Sander's plan, who would certainly be politically to the left of the anarcho-capitalists we find in the far right of the Republican party today,is to leave a little bit of disposable income with those near the bottom. I think this is a good plan and should give our economy a much needed shot in the arm.
well that was the original liberal idea. To treat all people just like they had inherited wealth. The very best way to create wealth is to pass it on from generation to generation. It doesn't take much of a job, but it does require a family. So after destroying the family the liberal government must now be the family.
 
Piezoe... please stop with your leftist pavlovian responses and digest this information which is not knew... its what we have been telling you for years. its just coming from brookings this time. A left leaning group, I am sure you respect.

The 80s tax changes (which you said hurt the bottom portion of americans by raising taxes on them.... is a bogus argument.)

How do I know? in 1980 20% of Americans did not pay Federal income taxes. In 2013, 43% of Americans didn't even even pay Federal income taxes.

Its those who are paying income taxes that are getting screwed by the income taxes and those not getting jobs because of them.

lowering taxes is a good thing according to brookings and everything I have shown you guys for years has told you -- govt revenues have gone up after tax cuts. We are not talking about leftist bullshit models or taxes as a percent of GDP... We are talking about real revenue in billions of dollars to the govt.


You just saw in that article... increasing taxes causes less inequality but in a bad way...more taxes creates less tax revenue for the govt to "distribute" (yes ricter as I told you many times the gini falls but for bad reasons).

Therefore...

A. Leftist clowns should stop arguing when we tell you that lower taxes increases govt revenues...

B. The logical and compassionate response is to lower taxes... but use the increased revenue to encourage able bodied people to get jobs... by phasing out govt assistance in a way that goes not create the cliff workers face when they lose govt benefits. And helping those who can't help themselves more.

We should have more revenue and more effective govt... by lowering taxes and redistributing the govt... not raising taxes and destroying GDP and taxpayers.

Why do you make the claim that lower taxes increase government revenue. There has been no such theory or hypothesis ever put out. Could you please elaborate on what the hell you are talking about?
 
well that was the original liberal idea. To treat all people just like they had inherited wealth. The very best way to create wealth is to pass it on from generation to generation. It doesn't take much of a job, but it does require a family. So after destroying the family the liberal government must now be the family.
Sometimes it seems to me you may have lost touch with reality. I you wanted to treat all people "just like they had inherited wealth" you wouldn't be trying to get their income up to 28K per year would you. :confused:
 
Sometimes it seems to me you may have lost touch with reality. I you wanted to treat all people "just like they had inherited wealth" you wouldn't be trying to get their income up to 28K per year would you. :confused:
I think you have a stereotypical definition of inherited wealth. It may have started out with just getting Grandpa's old tractor. I know I wouldn't be where I am now if it wasn't for help from my family, and that started long ago with my grandfather helping my mother out a little. It's natural for all of us to want to help out somebody else with no family the same way. But after about 50 years of this, it would seem encouraging people to become responsible parents and passing down a little more wealth to the heirs than they received would be a better long term solution to the current problem.
 
Why do you make the claim that lower taxes increase government revenue. There has been no such theory or hypothesis ever put out. Could you please elaborate on what the hell you are talking about?

Jem, it appears, is a believer in supply-side tickle down economics. The idea is that by lowering taxes on the wealthy you could goose the economy to the point that everyone would make more money; thus, even though the upper tax brackets are drastically reduced and compressed, everyone would be doing so much better that federal revenues would increase. There was one tax decrease, of a demand side rather than supply side nature, during Kennedy's administration, that some economists believe did increased revenues. The Kennedy tax decrease, however, was diametrically the opposite of the Reagan tax decrease in the 1980s. Revenues increased after both cuts, but economists believe that only the Kennedy cuts can be said to have been responsible for the increased revenues. Revenue increases under Reagan were the result of historically high Federal spending into the economy, some of which returned as federal revenue, coupled with a simultaneous recovery from the recession at the end of the Carter presidency. The Reagan cuts actually resulted in the highest peacetime deficits in the country's history. And the revenue shortfall from estimates was monstrous. Reagan later said that the failure of supply-side economics to generate the revenue increases anticipated was the greatest disappointment of his presidency. Sadly the Republican establishment today is still pushing for supply-side economics long after this school of economics has been thoroughly discredited. [see, for example, John Quiggin,"Zombie Economics."]

Here is an accurate rundown of the Kennedy cuts and why they worked to increase revenues. [underlining is mine, and my notes are added in italics and brackets] Note the Kennedy initiatives are nearly the mirror image of what the Republican establishment is espousing today.

The following is excerpted from http://www.npr.org/2013/11/12/244772593/jfks-lasting-economic-legacy-lower-tax-rates --which please see as it is one of the clearest most comprehensive articles you will find written for the non-economist.

" ...
By 1966 — the year that might have been the fifth of his presidency had he lived — Kennedy would have been presiding over an economy growing at a rate of 6.6 percent and an unemployment rate falling to just 3.8 percent.

That boom came after Kennedy got Congress to try to stimulate the economy by passing a "liberal" agenda that included:

  • Increasing the minimum wage.
  • Expanding unemployment benefits.
  • Boosting Social Security benefits to encourage workers to retire earlier.
  • Spending more for highway construction.
[note how the underlined items above are exact opposites of Republican initiatives today!]

But Kennedy also did something that conservatives have been praising ever since: He pushed for much lower tax rates.

In 1962, speaking at the Economic Club of New York, Kennedy said he was committed to "an across-the-board, top-to-bottom cut in personal and corporate income taxes." The tax system, mostly designed during World War II, "exerts too heavy a drag on growth in peace time; that it siphons out of the private economy too large a share of personal and business purchasing power; that it reduces the financial incentives for personal effort, investment, and risk-taking," he said.

Many lawmakers worried that reducing taxes without cutting spending would create unacceptable budget deficits. But Kennedy, who famously noted that "a rising tide lifts all boats," insisted tax cuts would generate broad-based growth.

Congress finally approved the tax cuts in early 1964, three months after Kennedy's assassination. The following fiscal year, the federal budget deficit did indeed shrink. Stock investors loved it. Between 1962 and 1966, the Dow Jones industrial average nearly doubled.

To this day, conservatives point to that robust period as evidence that cutting taxes will lead to higher revenues.

But liberals say conservatives' interpretation is misleading because conditions were so different in the early 1960s, when the top marginal tax rate was 91 percent. The Kennedy-backed tax cuts took down that rate to 70 percent. Today, the highest rate is 39.6 percent. Cutting the top tax bracket now would not have the same impact because it already has been lowered several times, the argument goes.

"You can only go to the well so many times before you lose effectiveness," says David Shreve, an economic historian who has written about the Kennedy-era tax cuts.

Shreve says there's another factor conservatives overlook: Kennedy's biggest tax cuts were aimed at average wage earners in hopes they would spend more. Boosting the demand side of the economy "gave us the widest prosperity and longest unbroken run of growth in history" up to then.

[The above underlined statement is the key to why the Kennedy cuts were so effective in creating a robust economy, i.e., the money was put where it would be spent, in the pockets of average wage earners! Contrast this to the diametrically opposite 1980s cuts which put the money at the top end where it wouldn't be spent, but instead invested to produce unearned income that would be taxed at a still lower rate. The Reagan cuts of the 1980s moved the 70% bracket precipitously down to 27% and actually raised the lowest bracket by a percent or two, so that nearly a flat tax was produced. (This idea of a flat tax remains a popular idea with Republicans today. And for good reason. It helped produced a wealth redistribution of money from the lower classes to the upper classes, the likes of which hadn't been seen since the 19th Century! It is important to note that the initial Reagan cuts were so drastic at the upper end they quickly had to be partially undone. Still today, however, as a hold over from the Reagan era, we are suffering from too few brackets. This has resulted in much of the progressive character of our U.S. income tax being been wrung out. The small yearly effects of bracket compression in combination with lower rates on unearned income compounded over 35 years has produced today's, drastically skewed, U.S. wealth distribution.]

In contrast, conservatives focus on "supply-side" cuts, which target the marginal tax rates for wealthier individuals. The goal is to encourage them to invest more and expand output.
 
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Jem, it appears, is a believer in supply-side tickle down economics. The idea is that by lowering taxes on the wealthy you could goose the economy to the point that everyone would make more money; thus, even though the upper tax brackets are drastically reduced and compressed, everyone would be doing so much better that federal revenues would increase. There was one tax decrease, of a demand side rather than supply side nature, during Kennedy's administration, that some economists believe did increased revenues. The Kennedy tax decrease, however, was diametrically the opposite of the Reagan tax decrease in the 1980s. Revenues increased after both cuts, but economists believe that only the Kennedy cuts can be said to have been responsible for the increased revenues. Revenue increases under Reagan were the result of historically high Federal spending into the economy, some of which returned as federal revenue, coupled with a simultaneous recovery from the recession at the end of the Carter presidency. The Reagan cuts actually resulted in the highest peacetime deficits in the country's history. And the revenue shortfall from estimates was monstrous. Reagan later said that the failure of supply-side economics to generate the revenue increases anticipated was the greatest disappointment of his presidency. Sadly the Republican establishment today is still pushing for supply-side economics long after this school of economics has been thoroughly discredited. [see, for example, John Quiggin,"Zombie Economics."]

Here is an accurate rundown of the Kennedy cuts and why they worked to increase revenues. [underlining is mine, and my notes are added in italics and brackets] Note the Kennedy initiatives are nearly the mirror image of what the Republican establishment is espousing today.

The following is excerpted from http://www.npr.org/2013/11/12/244772593/jfks-lasting-economic-legacy-lower-tax-rates --which please see as it is one of the clearest most comprehensive articles you will find written for the non-economist.

" ...
By 1966 — the year that might have been the fifth of his presidency had he lived — Kennedy would have been presiding over an economy growing at a rate of 6.6 percent and an unemployment rate falling to just 3.8 percent.

That boom came after Kennedy got Congress to try to stimulate the economy by passing a "liberal" agenda that included:

  • Increasing the minimum wage.
  • Expanding unemployment benefits.
  • Boosting Social Security benefits to encourage workers to retire earlier.
  • Spending more for highway construction.
[note how the underlined items above are exact opposites of Republican initiatives today!]

But Kennedy also did something that conservatives have been praising ever since: He pushed for much lower tax rates.

In 1962, speaking at the Economic Club of New York, Kennedy said he was committed to "an across-the-board, top-to-bottom cut in personal and corporate income taxes." The tax system, mostly designed during World War II, "exerts too heavy a drag on growth in peace time; that it siphons out of the private economy too large a share of personal and business purchasing power; that it reduces the financial incentives for personal effort, investment, and risk-taking," he said.

Many lawmakers worried that reducing taxes without cutting spending would create unacceptable budget deficits. But Kennedy, who famously noted that "a rising tide lifts all boats," insisted tax cuts would generate broad-based growth.

Congress finally approved the tax cuts in early 1964, three months after Kennedy's assassination. The following fiscal year, the federal budget deficit did indeed shrink. Stock investors loved it. Between 1962 and 1966, the Dow Jones industrial average nearly doubled.

To this day, conservatives point to that robust period as evidence that cutting taxes will lead to higher revenues.

But liberals say conservatives' interpretation is misleading because conditions were so different in the early 1960s, when the top marginal tax rate was 91 percent. The Kennedy-backed tax cuts took down that rate to 70 percent. Today, the highest rate is 39.6 percent. Cutting the top tax bracket now would not have the same impact because it already has been lowered several times, the argument goes.

"You can only go to the well so many times before you lose effectiveness," says David Shreve, an economic historian who has written about the Kennedy-era tax cuts.

Shreve says there's another factor conservatives overlook: Kennedy's biggest tax cuts were aimed at average wage earners in hopes they would spend more. Boosting the demand side of the economy "gave us the widest prosperity and longest unbroken run of growth in history" up to then.

[The above underlined statement is the key to why the Kennedy cuts were so effective in creating a robust economy, i.e., the money was put where it would be spent, in the pockets of average wage earners! Contrast this to the diametrically opposite 1980s cuts which put the money at the top end where it wouldn't be spent, but instead invested to produce unearned income that would be taxed at a still lower rate. The Reagan cuts of the 1980s moved the 70% bracket precipitously down to 27% and actually raised the lowest bracket by a percent or two, so that nearly a flat tax was produced. (This idea of a flat tax remains a popular idea with Republicans today. And for good reason. It helped produced a wealth redistribution of money from the lower classes to the upper classes, the likes of which hadn't been seen since the 19th Century! It is important to note that the initial Reagan cuts were so drastic at the upper end they quickly had to be partially undone. Still today, however, as a hold over from the Reagan era, we are suffering from too few brackets. This has resulted in much of the progressive character of our U.S. income tax being been wrung out. The small yearly effects of bracket compression in combination with lower rates on unearned income compounded over 35 years has produced today's, drastically skewed, U.S. wealth distribution.]

In contrast, conservatives focus on "supply-side" cuts, which target the marginal tax rates for wealthier individuals. The goal is to encourage them to invest more and expand output.
ha, ha, ha, You eliminate my corp tax and cap gains tax and I will give you anything and everything you want including an extremely progressive personal income tax with no deductions for charitable giving or mortgage deduction with int and div treated as ordinary income. I'm willing to give up something that will hurt me short term but be good for my grandkids long term. What is your party of no willing to give up? We all know you want more and more and there is no end to it. When will you put something on the table so we can work out a deal? Until then I vote for gridlock. Nothing is better than giving you one more inch. I know everything you want (and there is no end to it) but I as yet don't know what you are willing to give up for what you want. And an F35 doesn't count.
 
ha, ha, ha, You eliminate my corp tax and cap gains tax and I will give you anything and everything you want including an extremely progressive personal income tax with no deductions for charitable giving or mortgage deduction with int and div treated as ordinary income. I'm willing to give up something that will hurt me short term but be good for my grandkids long term. What is your party of no willing to give up? We all know you want more and more and there is no end to it. When will you put something on the table so we can work out a deal? Until then I vote for gridlock. Nothing is better than giving you one more inch. I know everything you want (and there is no end to it) but I as yet don't know what you are willing to give up for what you want. And an F35 doesn't count.
remember, it is not my party. I don't belong to or support political parties. I'm opposed to all of them. I support individual candidates with good ideas and oppose those with bad ideas. Now as far as asking for more and more goes, would more than 7.25/hour be too much to ask, or is that being greedy? Why doesn't the F35 count by the way. I'm curious. Was that the weapon Gates said the pentagon didn't want, but the Senate said they had to take it and like it anyway? Iv'e heard rumors that the F16 does a "bang-up" job of blowing goats and small children to bits. What do they want to destroy that can't be already destroyed ten times over? They can always create more terrorists and the necessary fear to keep the replacement parts production going forever. Things that are more important to me than an F35 right now include a decent cup of coffee and a hug.
 
remember, it is not my party. I don't belong to or support political parties. I'm opposed to all of them. I support individual candidates with good ideas and oppose those with bad ideas. Now as far as asking for more and more goes, would more than 7.25/hour be too much to ask, or is that being greedy? Why doesn't the F35 count by the way. I'm curious. Was that the weapon Gates said the pentagon didn't want, but the Senate said they had to take it and like it anyway? Iv'e heard rumors that the F16 does a "bang-up" job of blowing goats and small children to bits. What do they want to destroy that can't be already destroyed ten times over? They can always create more terrorists and the necessary fear to keep the replacement parts production going forever. Things that are more important to me than an F35 right now include a decent cup of coffee and a hug.
I'm waiting. So far the only thing you are willing to give up for a min wage hike is an F35. And now on top of min wage you also want a cup of coffee and a hug. There is no end to it with you democrats. You come to the bargaining table with nothing but needs and nothing to offer in return.
 
Piezoe... quote

"You can only go to the well so many times before you lose effectiveness," says David Shreve, an economic historian who has written about the Kennedy-era tax cuts.

Shreve says there's another factor conservatives overlook: Kennedy's biggest tax cuts were aimed at average wage earners in hopes they would spend more. Boosting the demand side of the economy "gave us the widest prosperity and longest unbroken run of growth in history" up to then.

1. a

I like this old school economist because he does not speak in absolutes. You can tell he is not big on tax cuts... but avoids lying... so does his best job to spin...

He is correct... you can only cut so many times before it might stop working. The good news is. After Kennedy, Reagan and Bush cut taxes and revenues went up again. After the Bush tax cuts the top one percent still paid more in taxes. So why not go back to the well... cut taxes and expect to see revenues go up.

1.b

I am absolutely for cutting income taxes on the 99%. I say eliminate them. So I agree with Piezoe's economist again. For economic and political reasons... this guy was correct.

1.c

Once again Piezoe misses the point of the brookings article which explained that taxing does improve income disparity... but in a bad way. But... if Piezoe insists on fixing income disparity... the absolutely only logical and compassionate way to do it is to eliminate income and death taxes on the 99% and increase them on the cronies.
 
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